: I'm NOT FUCKING WHITE, how can I be a racist? Erm, you could believe in Asian power. But answer the question, what is teh difference between nationalism and racism.
:It is my country, because I was born there and I grew up there. there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism means having pride in your country, nationalism means privileging your country in the international arena and using its power to teh detrmient of other countries.
And why can't I be patriotic to the white race? Have pride in the white race? Hmmm? Wherein is teh difference. So what if you grew up tehre, I grew up in Redcar, do I owe it my lotyalty before Birmingham? Why should you have pride in your country?
: 1. Japan had committed atrocities at Nanking, had tortured and worked to death American, British and Filipino prisoners of war, had converted Korean women to slave prosititutes, had invaded and annexed much of China. Japan's war crimes were far greater than America's.
: 2. Japan had not already "lost the war".
: 3. 60,000 died at Hiroshima; far more than that died in one night during the firebombing of Tokyo. Why is teh atmoic bomb, per se, the object of so much oppobrium?
I object to the Firebombing as well, thank you- the Japanese fleet was destroyed, the US was marchining inexorably towards Japan, they probably would have surrenderede when US troops hit their soil (contrary to their 'fight to teh death image'), they were out of resources. The first point doesn't even enter into rational debate, whats it got to do with bombing Japan?
: OK., by using teh word "tryant", you're already stacking the deck. And you can't call teh US an evil power, since it has also done a lot of good. By the way, I forgot to mention the Peace Corps, which ahs doen a lot for development in Africa, S. America, and other places, and which is strictly apolitical.
Well, it invades countries without respect of teh Rule of Law, shows scant regard for freedom, and is not controlable by any other group who may be its vitcims, sounds like classic tyranny to me. Think of a father, gives his kids gifts, plays with them seems to love them, but perhaps he ferociously beats one of them and is a strict disciplinarian, always demanding to get his own way...
: Our intervention in teh Italian elections was wrong, I already admitted that. I don't know how good the Greek guerillas were, but I know that we ended up supporting an expansionist military junta that tried to take over Cyprus. However, the afct remains that we did the right thing in Egypt. You know what self-determination means, teh opposite of colonialism. There's no way you can tell me that an Egyptian government ruling over Egyptians is not superior to a British regime. It's a basic right that all huamn peopels have, to govern themselves. otherwise, why do you defend Ho Chi Minh's war of independence against teh French?
All people have a right to govern themselves, 'peoples' is an abstraction meaning that one group of rulers take over from another- does it matter if one master was british and one master was Egyptian, still a fucking master- I don't support any wars of iberation, the working class has no nation.
: Yes, but we stopped teh Chinese when they shelled Quemoy and Matsu, and we thretened to intervene if China invaded Taiwan after the elections a few years back. If we ahdn't had links to taiwan, China would have taken over long ago.
i.e. self interest, and a way of controlling Taiwan, hardly a shining example of righteous behaviour.
: you can always find a cynical explanation of anything. my point is, did they not do teh right thing in Somalia?
No, they ended up firing on a clearly marked Red Cross hospital, US roops were not the answer, sending troops in gets people killed you know...
: wINSTON cHURCHILL was a jerk off. Does that mean that Saddam was not also a murderer? because we didn't stop churchill, does that mean we shouldn't stop Saddam? after all, Churchill WAS our necessary ally against Hitler?
So was Stalin, so much for a war for freedom- strangely, Saddam was not stopped when he was murdering his own people, he was stopped when he threatened the geo-political stability of the middle east- and nothing Saddam does justifies the ongoing Genocide being perpetrated against his victims by the US/UK.
: believe me, I for one would be glad if Saddam was in hell, so would plenty of other Americans.
Yes, but not your government, who are quite keen on keeping him there (hence betraying the Kurds and Shia muslims). Sanctions prop his regime up quite immensely, and justify a continued military presence in the region.
: Come on. Are you postulating a moral equivalency between FDR (a great man, by teh way) and Hitler? FDR was a noted anti-imperialist by teh way, especially with regard to Mexico, teh Philippines, India, and British colonies in Africa like the Gambia.
Roosevelt also orchestrated the US move into the MIddle East, taking as an Ally that well known democrat the King of Saudi Arabia- also the Italy affair was started under Roosevelt. He may well have been against formal colonialism (a la Britain), but he was always careful to push US international interests.
Nor was I comparing men, but nations and power interests, the british Epire was hardly a shining beacon of light, the US allied itself with Stalin for that little war. etc.
: You are aguing, if i understand correctly, that these actiosn were not ":good" because they were motivated by pragmatic self interest. But then, you can't call nanything the US does "evil" either, sinec again teh motivation is generally pragmatic self-interest, which is morally neutral. The operative thing is not the intention, but the quality and the result of the action.
Bingo, I don't call it evil, I would never use such terms, I would call it pragmatic self interest, however, we have to ask, is it right for one powerful nation to have such a self interest, and should we back its pursuit of self interest, instead, of say, backing the rule of law, or even world-wide peace. There is no need to defend one state against another, workers have no nation, they have no national interest, the world over they have only one interest- against the Capitalist class.
