: Community, culture and identity = national identity.that doesn't necessarilly follow. Community and culture are both things you do, nation is something you are.
: Because I would, RD you can understand why people want to parade their bedroom manner and why women hate men but you cant understand why I'd wnat to preserve an element of identity?
Sexual identity is something you do, being a woman is something you do, identity is something you do, why must idnetity be based on something you are?
: Did they resist? I recall celebrations on the behalf of the people upon the declaration of war.
Yes, indeed, daft buggers went willingly.
: I still dont reckon with such determinism and the hostility toward another political creed isnt in keeping with my views either. That's why Trots or Tories are more likely to say "get lost" than "lets have a drink and talk about it" when they hear someone express either a different opinion or the simple liberalism of political disinterest.
I'll say lets have a debate.
: I have to disagree Ireland was split into regions that where pretty much in a state of perpetual war with themselves and anyone they didnt recognise and the kings got that way by being established in battle.
yes, teh Kings, like the Ui neil Familly, etc. However Kingship wasn't much of a political entity (in some cases more of a sacrifical entity).
: Britain was celtic at a time too but a german invasion of angles and then saxons lead to the genocide of the celts and the anglo-saxons then went on to establish england when they decided they where one better than their ancestors who'd sailed across to the island.
Huh! they integrated quite nicely actually, many Walesh (source of Welsh, you;re welsh, you know that?) meanign foreigner either stayed put and simply lived under a new lord, or fucked off to CUmbria or Wales. No genocide involved.
: That has a lot to do with it too but once you get into loyalty you have the subserviance to elites business and exclusivity EG I'm loyal to eire I'll dispise the english.
Eire= Self England = Other by which self is defined negatively. in that model.
: Is mutualist national identity inconsistant with this socialist vision? I dont think so that whole socialism is this anything diverging from this is not is just a bit totalitarian RD, I guess I'm a heretic well that's just great I'm no fan of orthodoxy.
Socialism is a system wherein there are no markets, logically. nothing to do with totalitarian orthodoxy, if there's a market, its not socialism. Ther road you're on is the road to "Socialism is what the labour party does."
: My perception of nation isnt exclusive, anyone who wants to claim their irish can anyone who wants to be anything else can do so too.
So, what is Irish though? Can you define Irish?
: retorhical nonsense.
Do you accept or reject Orwells patriarchal model of Nation? If you do, you accept that nation implies hegemony, the people in charge. If not...
: They did in Germany, documented fact and thousands of civi's poisoned themselves when the ruskies arrived.
And others were given a helping hand...
: I have been but all I get is Marx.
Strange, i thought I was giving logical reasoned debate. If you want to just pidgeon hole me and thereby dismiss my arguments...
: Well I wouldnt consider myself overly refomist but what is wrong with reform anyway, the fabian approach of wearing out the opponent just as fabian did to Hannabals mighty army?
Because it doesn't work, and the immediate battles become mroe important than the end goal, which becomes just a far off dream, etc. Off again on the road to 'socialism is what the labour party does.'
: Really? I thought it was working fine as long as everyone got stuck into the nearest arab.
Nope, its a mess.
: You have names and addresses? Where do they meet and hang out?
The stock-exchange usually, where the Government cacks itself when they start moving their money about. they meet in board rooms, at downing street, etc. In the minds of economists...
: That's one view.
Its one view backed by historical evidence. teh Serbs voted in Parliament the night before the bombing began to back a version of the deal, thre was room for negotiation.
: I dont think I'd disagree with that, how does it prevent you having a national sentiment at once?
because a national sentiment is an abstraction.
: Capitalist workers.
Erm, no? You're a capitalist if you can live solely off the labour of others.
: Keynesianism is liberal economic planning the economic planning involved in any alternative (left-wing?) vision is going to have a similar effect if you take that line.
Exactly, hence my aversion to reformism.
None.
