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: Thanks to Claire for posting. Claire was trying to show how creativity can bring forth feelings of "pride, entertainment, and gratification, which lasts me longer than a trip to the mall." So it ain't merely to spite the big corporations. And as for "enjoying the drive for efficiency," it might be fun buying cheap stuff at Wal-Mart, as I do sometimes, but it ain't so fun when you're earning minimum wages and the boss tells you to put some pep in your step or you're out on your ass. Sure people enjoy the fruits of capitalism. I do too. That doesn't mean there isn't a downside, nor does it mean that there will never be anything better than the capitalist system in the entire history of Planet Earth, all the way that point a couple of billion years from now when the Sun gets too hot and burns up all terrestrial life.And I suppose everyone that works at Wal Mart is oppressed based on their employment. And of course the assumption is that they do not enjoy their job, they are underpaid, abused and deserve a great deal more for what it is they do....these are the typical portraits that are painted of the large overbearing capitalist exploiting and manipulating people who need the job to work for less than they are worth.....I am sure that in some instances this may in fact be the case, yet so what? The world is filled with people who are jerks regardless of thier political persuasion....and I am tired of everyone who says that this is an indication of an oppressive regime or ideology that does not care about people. I never had anything given to me.....I had to go to school take loans, and go to the library and read and grow my perspective and work part time jobs and live in crowded apartments to achieve a standard of living I am proud of.....You don't think because I went through this I can not appreciate the value of hard work, sacrifice and drive to accomplish? I am all for helping people out that are in situations in which they have little options, or circumstances that dictate a lack of opportuntity...yet in my experience people in this society have great ideas about what they deserve and expect, yet are not prepared to sacrifice to achieve. As far as I am concerned, just because you are a member of the human race who has feelings and hurts gives you a right to an equality of condition? We all have our stories to tell, yet at the end of the day we have to make an effort to do something for ourselves...if you look hard enough, there are a lot of people who are willing to support and help...yet it is often easier to bitch complain about the inequaltities....
: I'm not so arrogant that I assume that if people were free to do what they wanted rather than being required to play sneaky games with money and power and property, that these fruits of capitalism would be replaced by eternal Hell... If capitalism has created the best living for some that civilization has ever known, esp. Americans who make up 4% of the world's population and do 30% of the world's resource consumption, do we owe it our eternal gratitude and an oath never to criticize it in public? I don't think so.
Of course you have the right to criticize it, it is a valuable and essential right in our society. However, just because you are criticizing it and your dogma is accepted by many does it justify you as objective.
: I once camped year-round in a forest for a few years, inviting others to come with me on rent strike, in a period where the rents in my area were tripling in the space of a few years. Those were some of the best years of my life, and I didn't really own anything or have a roof over my head during that time. It got kind of lonely at the end, so I moved out. I still feel lonely, not because there is nobody around, here in the suburbs of LA, but because the capitalist system creates so few personalities worth meeting. (This is where Claire is really onto something.) Little kids are the best; they're the least corrupted.
I feel bad that you experienced that, and it must have been a lonely time. Yet to arrogantly say that capitalism creates so few personalites worth meeting speaks highly of your attitude and bias than any truth....to see your point..every socialist I talk to is so out of touch with reality, they are boring. The glorious idealism and morality of this imaginative system appeals to the heart strings of youth, yet is unachievable politically or economically. One of the things that everyone forgets is that an economy has to be viable to afford social programs....if the society is not wealthy it can not afford to have social programs.....I would point to the example of the soviet union (which i accept does not represent marxism) found out that its economy in part could not produce enough wealth and incentive to afford the social control it required to achieve its ideology...Similarity in sweden, the high taxes required to finance the cradle to grave system has placed the burden on everyone, and the welfare within the state are finding themselves attached....if you follow the examples, you can see how any system based on equality of condition can not, and will not work. I would not say that capitalism is the most equiatable system for distributing wealth....yet it was never intended to do so.....it is an ECONOMIC system......it is the best system to create the wealth...if you want redistribution...talk to the government........
: Besides buying things like CDs now and then, I also enjoy building gardens in people's back yards and playing games with little kids and going on long bike rides. But that's my current space, and I don't want to prejudge what I should enjoy were I in another social situation, in another space, in another part of the world. The most disturbing thing about the smug procapitalists I see on this Debating Room is their constant blocking out of the thought that things could be better otherwise.
: I've put forth the idea that we could distribute our wealth according to who needed it, and we could create a world where work was enjoyable instead of drudgery, and I've even challenged my own idea by saying that such a world may not be possible. So far, the only response I've received from Kevin, Zachary Emig, Mike Bednarz, Cara Russell, RWB etc. is that such a world would be a living Hell. Don't you guys have any imagination?
Just because we don't choose to entertain your vision does not indicate any lacy of imagination....often those that defend capitalism have found that they have done so after spending time as a socialist.....we are all young and have a heart....we are all idealists at heart....don't discount your perspective simply because you think we don't have imagination....its takes imagination to improve the current situation...yet you need to understand how and why it works the way it does to affect any real change......that is where I think people like you often use your brush to wipe out these statements based on the majority of people not caring....or to indoctrinated to understand what you speak of...or where you are coming from. As far as I am concerned your call for imagination requires you to look even deeper into youself.
Kev
