: I said in my post that the Nazis--and Fascism by definition--were anti-capitalist. The name itself has its etymology in the unions, as it comes from the Italian word "fascio" meaning bundle of sticks. It was first used in the 1890's by workers in the Sicilian sulphur mines--meaning something difficult to break if it keeps together--and the Fascists hijacked the word from the workers, like so much else. : Your Webster's American dictionary will give a hint as to the history of the term right there in the entry under "fag", a term every schoolboy homophobic (which I'll bet includes you, regardless of middle age and dreadlocks) has come across in his research.
: Frenchy, I'm giving you one--the word 'fascist' has its origins in the trade union movement. So what?
++++++++++++A minor point; 'fascist' derives from 'fascis', third declension Latin noun, male gender. It the singular it refers to a bundle, or a packet, while in the plural it usually refers to a bundle of sticks holding an axe head. It was a symbol of unity used by the Romans. Old American dimes have a picture of a fasces on them.
"Homophobic", another word that deserves and early death. It means 'afraid of man', and has become a shorthand way of slurring another's position and opinions with the object of stemming free speech. Think of what that word really means, its literal translation...and how it is used. By your definition I'm undoubtedly 'homophobic', yet I deal with men every day of my life. What you et al. really mean is that I have an opposing point of view on perverted sexuality. There's a difference; I'm not afraid of men, even those who actually are homosexual, but I don't necessarily approve of some sexual practices. Now, if you've got anymore to say about the subject, spit it out.
: As your posting shows, the Nazis came to power using the rhetoric the little guy to gain mass support. They supported the peasant, artisan and small businessman; they attacked the bondage of interest imposed by the banks and big business (really, attacking the Jews); they created social unity of "das volk" with myths based on the German race (Wagner operas, for example). Most of all, they hijacked the programme of socialism from the left with a national socialism from the Right, and that's why you're finding, in Nazi writings, intersections with leftist socialism.
: (Note: WHY you're looking for these interesections is another story, and probably has to do with my oft-repeated speculation that you're publicly licking the boots of power. My further speculation has you as being the victim of an overwhelming father-figure, and thus your ostentatious displays of loyalty to the system have nothing to do with leftism but everything to do with people who challenge authority. even as your Rastafarian, "multi-cultural" appearance and lifestyle stand in direct opposition to what your father would wish it to be.)
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&Ahhhh, a part time amatuer shrink. I see your mental image of me as; White middle-aged male, pot-belly, faux dreadlocks, dashiki over cammy's, high-top steel-toe boots with bloused pants, wearing a monocle and carrying a swagger stick; vastly inferior to you in intellectual terms, at home in the local VFW and a connoisseur of beverages that come in a package of six or by the keg. I am, in your mind, a virtual robot who is invincibly ignorant of the real status of the world.
Fine.
: I defy anyone to find anything in Marx that advocates the oppression of the individual, let alone killing or genocide. An important tenet of Nazism is the purity of the German race, and Marx wanted people to see themselves in categories of CLASS, not race. How many differences do you wish? Marxism is about freeing the individuals from the wage-slavery in which capitalism holds them bondage. Marxism seeks to emancipate them so as to allow for their full development as individuals.
*************Well, how about the part in the Communist Manifesto where he advocates violence to overthrow the existing political/economic system? Isn't that necessarily advocating the oppression of some, ie; property owners?
:
: Nazism and Fascism in general subsume the individual for the sake of the state, but at least they said so publicly. Now, what does capitalism do? It enshrines the individual on paper while trampling the individuals in the real world. Here is your capitalist "individual": a fetishized, commodified, ahistorical abstraction whose only choice in life is whether sell herself to the factory or the brothel. Can anyone here tell me what the people of Haiti, Thailand, Indonesia think of our holy Constitution and glorious Bill of Rights?
@@@@@@@@@@@I don't think their governments want those poor slobs to know about the Bill of Rights, especially the part about having a God-given right to own weapons for the express order of overturning a tyranical government. Federalist 29 covers that.
I've been to these countries and seen what the "free-market" has done. As I've mentioned before, the rights that we in the First World enjoy rest not on their abstract beauty and harmony with the laws of Human Nature and God, but on the toil, sweat, blood and terror of millions of other people around the globe. Just look at the labels on your clothes! (Frenchy will no doubt pull out a 'Made in China' item and blame it on the Communist Monster, but he's a near terminal case of indoctrination.)
######Ultimately, yes, the blame does in fact belong to the Communist Monster. You can slice it, dice it, shread it any way you like, but governments that have kept their people oppressed for decades are the responsible party, not another country.
: While I (in some ways, with miles and miles of provisions) salute the fall of Stalinist regimes, it's resulted a lot of people with impoverished political imaginations, as if they can see no other form of social organization. Even at the top ranks of power, we have people saying, "Yeah, capitalism isn't perfect, but what could be better?"
@@@@@@@@@@@@Excellent question.
: For the people making our clothes, toys and gadgets, the question is more like, "Yeah, capitalism, what could be worse?"
: PORGIE TIREBITER
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&Making statements like that, and apparently believing them, without questioning the political and economic structures of those countries is a sure fire sign of a huckster.
: : WE DEMAND THAT THE GOVERNMENT UNDERTAKE THE OBLIGATION ABOVE ALL OF PROVIDING
: : CITIZENS WITH ADEQUATE OPPORTUNITIES FOR EMPLOYMENT AND EARNING A LIVING.
: : THE ACTIVITIES OF THE INDIVIDUAL MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO CLASH WITH THE INTERESTS
: : OF THE COMMUNITY, BUT MUST TAKE PLACE WITHIN ITS CONFINES AND BE FOR THE GOOD
: : OF ALL ...
: : WE DEMAND THE NATIONALIZATION OF ALL BUSINESSES WHICH HAVE BEEN AMALGAMATED
: : (INTO TRUSTS).
: : WE DEMAND THAT THE STATE SHALL SHARE IN THE PFOFITS OF LARGE INDUSTRIES.
: : WE DEMAND THAT PROVISION FOR THE AGED SHALL BE MADE ON A VERY GREATLY INCREASED
: : SCALE.
: : WE DEMAND A LAND-REFORM SUITABLE TO OUR NATIONAL REQUIREMENTS, THE PASSING OF A
: : LAW FOR THE CONFISCATION OF LAND FOR COMMUNAL PURPOSES; THE ABOLITION OF
: : INTEREST ON MORTGAGES, AND PROHIBITION OF ALL SPECULATION IN LAND.
: : WE DEMAND AN AGRARIAN REFORM SUITABLE TO OUR NATIONAL REQUIREMENTS; THE
: : ENACTMENT OF A LAW TO EXPROPRIATE WITHOUT COMPENSATION THE OWNERS OF ANY
: : LAND THAT MAY BE NEEDED FOR NATIONAL PURPOSES; THE ABOLITION OF GROUND RENTS;
: : AND THE PROHIBITION OF ALL SPECULATION IN LAND.
: : THE STATE SHALL ORGANIZE THOROUGHLY THE WHOLE CULTURAL SYSTEM OF THE NATION.
: : THE CONCEPTION OF THE STATE IDEA (THE SCIENCE OF CITIZENSHIP) SHALL BE TAUGHT IN
: : THE SCHOOLS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. WE DEMAND THAT SPECIALLY TALENTED CHILDREN
: : OF POOR PARENTS, NO MATTER WHAT THEIR STATION OR OCCUPATION, SHALL BE EDUCATED
: : AT THE COST OF THE STATE.
: : IT IS THE DUTY OF THE STATE TO HELP RAISE THE STANDARD OF THE NATION'S HEALTH BY
: : PROVIDING MATERNITY WELFARE CENTRES, BY PROHIBITING JUVENILE LABOUR, BY
: : INCREASING PHYSICAL FITNESS THROUGH THE INTRODUCTION OF COMPULSORY GAMES AND
: : GYMNASTICS. . . .
: : (WE) COMBAT THE MATERIALISTIC SPIRIT WITHIN AND OUTSIDE US, AND ARE CONVINCED
: : THAT A PERMANENT RECOVERY OF OUR PEOPLE CAN ONLY PROCEED WITHIN ON THE
: : FOUNDATION OF "THE COMMON GOOD BEFORE THE INDIVIDUAL GOOD."
: : - From the Unalterable Twenty-Five Point Programme of the German National Socialist Workers
: : Party, (the NSDAP or Nazi party) authored by Adolf Hitler and others. Translation provided by
: : Konrad Heiden's "A History of National Socialism"
: :
: : Well, now this proves that the Nazis were actually bit players in a vast right wing conspiracy to.............I'll leave it up to the more fertile minds on this board to finish............Porgie? Sammy?
