DDN: "If you want to be equal then go and get your head blown off in a war, build your own house, and fight your own fights."Kevin: Do you KNOW this woman? Do you KNOW she hasn't built her own house? Do you KNOW that she doesn't "fight her own fights"?
DDN: Who gives a flying F___ if she has done these things or not. She's a dime-per-dozen male basher My blanket statements about her aren't any less fair than her sweeping generalizations about men. Does she know EVERY SINGLE MAN ON THE PLANET THAT EVER LIVED? No.
Kevin: What's so important about fighting anyways?
DDN: Well
.in the USA, fighting is what we're expected to do (collectively in the form of war and individually in the workplace) in order help maintain our standard of living which is, according to our women, a direct measure of how well we are doing as men. In other words, if you want to measure up in the eyes of females, get some money; if you want some money, then go out and compete for limited resources i.e. fight, cheat, steal, participate in fascism - women don't care how you got it just as long as you HAVE IT.
Kevin: I thought fighting was wrong!
DDN: Tell it to the ladies. They LOVE us fighting for them.
Kevin: As for getting her head blown off in a war, I have news for you: Most years, infinitely more women are murdered by men than the number of soldiers who die as a result of war.
DDN: Is that why there's more women on the planet right now then men? Seems to me that lots of people of both genders get killed every year. Bottom line is that there's about equal amounts of men and women on the planet (women with a slight edge) and there always has been. For women to die from murder at a substantially higher rate than men, men would have to be dying from things, such as war, diseases and old age, at a substantially higher rate than women. If its disease that strikes the balance then shouldn't we have more pity for MEN than for women? Would you rather be murdered or die of prostrate cancer or heart failure? I think we're splitting hairs here, aren't we?
Kevin: Women are targeted because of their gender, much in the same way members of different races and sexualities are the targets of hate crimes.
DDN: And men are targeted to die in war because of their gender. They're "targeted" for all manner of dangerous things because of their gender: climbing roofs, mining coal, hunting, farming, etc. If a man and a woman happen upon a burning house with people trapped inside, which one is generally expected to run into the inferno and perform a rescue? The man. Why? Because of his gender. Women in the US have been taught to ignore such fundamental parts of reality and have consequently engendered the hate of men. So now we all hate each other - great. Naturally, if that mutual hate comes down to some sort of physical confrontation, the man is going to win (And that's usually manslaughter by the way, not murder). Of course the women are completely without guilt for everything that ever happens to them since men are the sole perpetrators of all evil on the planet - EVERYBODY knows that.
Kevin: What you are engaging in is backlash, pure and simple. It is blaming the victim
DDN: Huh? How is Tonya a victim in this sense? Tonya hasn't been killed by anyone as far as I can tell (unless she's writing to us from the grave). As long as you're going to confine this debate to Tonya's personal situation, we first should establish whether or not she is alive or dead. (Tonya? Care to respond?) Then we should establish HOW she died. Did she die at the hands of murderous, woman hating male who just had it in for women in general or did she die from of the loneliness and confusion that comes from her hatred of the entire male gender.
This is so screwed, Kevin. Y'all aren't going to be happy until I confess that women aren't anything other than completely innocent victims without any power or authority whatsoever. Haven't you ever had a girlfriend? They run EVERYTHING. Pussy is such a commodity in the US that you can't even trust your own best male friends in the presence of your significant other. Generally only WOMEN are aware of their true street value and they generally abuse it to the point of absurdity. Men over here, for the most part, are little more than whimpering little puppies jumping through hoops for doggy biscuits. And any man that's ever been on the other end of a woman's wrath knows that being brutally murdered is not the worst thing that can happen to you. So don't give ME this sh_t about blaming the victim. We're all doing "IT" to each other down here and the scapegoating backlash on males that's so popular these days isn't an improvement on ANYTHING.
Kevin:
..it infuriates me, and as a man it embarrasses me. Take a look around you, get off your goddammed high horse of male
privilege and acknowledge your part in all of this.
DDN: High horse? I'm just trying to get up on A horse
.ANY horse (with a penis, that is). But no can do. Not around here, anyway. Either everybody gets a dick or NOBODY gets a dick. That's Tonya's world. Laying down and accepting this ridiculous model of "equal in every way" is what is embarrassing to ME.
Kevin:
.Men need to take some responsibility for
the shit they and their friends dish out, instead of playing the old "If that were me..." violin.
DDN: No problem with you there. What I won't do, however, is lay down and take blame for EVERYTHING. What I won't do is let women get away with the evil hand they have in our collective state of affairs: their insatiable greed for material things, their twisted psychological manipulations of men, and their big, secret, nation-wide puSSy conspiracy.
Kevin: ..In Montreal on December 6, 1989 14 women were murdered by a man who saw them as feminists out to take his place in the world. Your comments do not differ greatly from the comments he made in his letter. While your average man is several steps away from
performing such a deed, the average man also seems to spend a lot of time complaining about feminism and women's rights.
DDN: Jesus Christ! What kind of candyass hogwash is this? If I have a problem with feminist movements I'm akin to a mass murderer? Bow your head in shame, Kevin. Let's just pretend like you didn't say this.
Kevin:
..This makes me laugh (one I'm done screaming in anger), since the average man is not in danger of being murdered, raped, or beaten by his partner, father, or brother.
DDN: No, he's just in danger of spending his life in complete misery trying to figure out how to get laid, marrying the wrong woman and losing his house and kids, and dying of a heart attack.
Kevin:
..The average man still earns more money for equal work. The average man still learns to treat women as inferior in most respects,
.
DDN: Not any more than the average women grows up resenting men for having penises or thinking that they themselves should be more like men than like women. If men think women are so lame then why is almost everything we do directed at attracting and appeasing women?
Kevin:
.and the average man grows up in a world of privelege.
DDN: Eh? I thought the "privileged" class was less than one percent of the world's population. How do you get "average" out of one percent?
Kevin:
.Are you an average man? I am not afraid to admit my part in all of this,
DDN: What you're afraid of is to admit that you don't really know what your part in all of this IS.
Kevin:
..and I am not too weak to make an effort to change it. I will wear a white ribbon on December 6 in honour of
those fourteen women and all women everywhere who are murdered by men. Why is it always by men, DDN? Are you not also a part of the male socialization process?
Here are some stats:
National Statistics (U.S.)
A. Partner Abuse
An estimated six million women are assaulted by their male partners each year. Of these, 1.8 million are severely assaulted.(Straus, 1993).
22 to 35% of women who visit medical emergency rooms are there for injuries related to
on-going abuse. (JAMA: The Journal of the American Medical Association, 264, NO. 8,1991)
Domestic Violence is the leading cause of injury to women between the ages of 15 and 44 in
the United States; more than car accidents, muggings, and rapes combined. ("Violence
Against Women, A Majority Staff Report, "Committee on the Judiciary, October 1992")
About 1 out of 4 women are likely to be abused by partner in her lifetime. ("Violence Against
Women" Sara Glazer, Co Researcher, Congressional Quarterly, Inc, 1993)
There are 1,500 shelters for battered women in the United States. There are 3,800 animal
shelters. (Schneider, 1990 )
B. Intimate Homicide
In 1993, 29% of female murder victims were slain by their husbands, boyfriends whereas only 3% of male victims were killed by their wives, ex-wives, or girlfriends (Federal Bureau of Investigation, 1994).
One recent study found that possessiveness (including infidelity, fear of termination of relationship, and sexual rivalry) was the most prevalent reason given by male offenders for
killing their romantic partners. Female offenders killed much more often for self-defense than for any other reason (Rasche, 1993).
C. Cost of Domestic Violence
Every year, domestic violence causes approximately 100,000 days of hospitalization; 28,700
emergency room visits; and 39,900 visits to a physician. This violence costs the nation
between $5 and $10 billion per year (Meyer, 1992).
Medical expenses from domestic violence total at least $3 to $5 billion annually. Businesses
forfeit another $100 million in loss wages, sick leave, absenteeism and non-productivity.
(Domestic Violence for Health Care Providers, 3rd Edition, Colorado Domestic Violence
Coalition, 1991)
G. Sexual Assault
1. Rape Rate
According to The National Women's Study, 683,000 forcible rapes occur every year, which
equals 56,916 per month; 1,871 per day; 78 per hour; and 1.3 per minute Center and Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center, 1992)
Sexual assault continues to represent the most rapidly growing violent crime in America.
(Dupre, A.R. Hampton, H.L., Morrison, H., and Meeks, G.R. Sexual Assault. Obstetrical
and Gynecological Survey. 1993;48:640-648)
Over 700,000 women are sexually assaulted each year. (National Crime Center and Crime
Victims Research and Treatment Center. Rape in America: A Report to the Nation.
Arlington, VA; 1992:1-16.)
It is estimated that fewer than 50% of rapes are reported. (Dupre, A.R. Hampton, H.L.,Morrison, H., and Meeks, G.R. Sexual Assault. Obstetrical and Gynecological Survey.1993;48:640-648)
Approximately 20% of sexual assaults against women are perpetrated by assailants unknown
to the victim. The remainder are committed by friends, acquaintances, intimates, and family
members. acquaintance rape is particularly common among adolescent victims. (Heise, L.L.
Reproductive freedom and violence against women: where are the .....Ethics. 1993;21(2):206-216.)
Male victims represent five percent of reported sexual assaults. (American Academy of
Pediatrics, Committee on Adolescence. Sexual assault and the adolescent. Pediatrics.
1994;94(5):761-765)
Among female rape victims, 61% are under age 18. (National Victim Center, and Crime
Victims Research and Treatment Center. Rape in America: A Report to the Nation.
Arlington, VA; 1992:1-16; (American Academy of Pediatrics, Committee on Adolescence.
Sexual assault and the adolescent. Pediatrics. 1994;94(5):761-765.)
At least 20% of adult women, 15% of college women and 12% of adolescent women have
experienced some form of sexual abuse or assault during their lifetimes. (Koss M.P., Hidden
rape: sexual aggression and victimization in a national sample of students in higher education.
In: Burgess A. W., ed Rape and Sexual Assault. New York, NY: Garland Publishing:1988;2:3-25.)
Taken from: http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/academic/soc_sci/ajs/vaw/national.html
If you still think it is not a war, here is a list of all the women and children murdered by men in
the province of Quebec alone, since December 6 1989:
http://reseau.chebucto.ns.ca/CommunitySupport/Men4Change/killed.html
If you are still stubbornly in denial, here are some Canadian stats...
http://reseau.chebucto.ns.ca/CommunitySupport/Men4Change/stat.html
DDN: What is it that you think I am in denial of? I know that women get murdered, beaten, and raped. My point is:
1) Men are subject to horrible abuses from women their entire lives (as exemplified by some of your own stats above Ex// They are expected to live in constant fear of relationship termination) and are exposed to a host of dangers that women are not exposed to.
2) The stats above represent a social problem of massive proportions, but it is just that: A SOCIAL PROBLEM. Blaming it all on men is nothing but a sick, trendy ploy by feminist movements to alleviate themselves of THEIR responsibilities as WOMEN.
Final thought: Isn't every man a product of a woman?
