:: Who deifies Charlie? the bugger's, he'd spin in his grave, rotate in highgate so he would.You guys invented this language Red. Try to communicate with it if it isn't too much to ask. Whose Charlie? Was he an entomologist? When did he die? What's a highgate?
:: Another way of looking at it, though, is through Hegelian eyes, with Marx showing how to Realise the Absolute Spirit (i.e. God in hegel's version of the ontological proof) in the form of communism. If you are inclined to religious Hegelianism that is...
And Hegel's immoral hero philosophy served up the German intelligencia to the Third Reich and paved the way for the spiritual revival that ensued, I suppose. You've been drinking again, haven't you, Red? I hope the connection between Christ and Hegel wasn't cooked up in the labratory of some disillusioned Unification theorist. The second we see a physicist throwing numbers about to support this lunacy the sooner it will hit big.
:: I dunno, man, a few protestants I know claim they follow the nicean Creed, I have no idea if you subscribe to it or not (Apprently there is an amusing Board-game called 'Credo' in which you get to be the council of nicea, and should the nuaghty gnostics sneak anything in...) but it does include "We believe in one church, holy, catholic (i.e. universal) and Apostolic." the Apostilic tradition, "I shall name you Peter, the rock upon which I shall build my church", St, peter, first Pope.
Nonsense! Although Matthew 16:18 seems to exist as a tool for the strong willed to prey upon the weak minded, take note that Peter had just admitted to the group attending that Jesus was the Christ. Now the word Christ is not simply a last name when you use it around a group of Jewish fishermen. Jesus responded to the acknowledgement of His incarnation by saying, "You are Peter (petros - small rock), and upon this rock (petra - big rock) I will build my church..." Was Christ referring to Peter or to His Messianic incarnation as the basis of His church? This text does not convey either idea unequivocally. One must compile many scriptures together with a common theme to suggest a doctrinal position. If the Catholic Church has only this to support a priesthood and papal hierarchy it's a wonder they bother with the Bible at all.
Christ does go on to give Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven in this text. The hard part of this text is when Christ says "whatever is bound on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatever is loosed..." Bound and loosed were common rabbinical terms of that day which meant forbid and permit. It is clear that Christ is giving Peter authority here, as was fitting considering the fact that He was not to be with them for much longer. But did that authority put salvation in the hands of men as the Catholic Church would have us believe? If so, what do you make of the fact that a few verses later, Christ calls Peter Satan? I say that Satan, through Peter, was attempting to dissuade Christ of His resolve to suffer indignity and death for the sake of man. I say that, but for that resolve, there would be no salvation at all. Now if the Catholic Church wishes to throw out substantial portions of the book of Hebrews in order to ignore the fact that Christ is our one and only high priest forever, I suppose they can. But what they can't do is arbitrate real salvation by forcing capitulation to a liturgy, sacrament, or priest. Salvation is a gift of God, not the result of works, lest any man should boast. But that would be in Ephesians, another book the Catholic church must ignore to uphold its hierarchy of tyranny.
:: the Apostolic tradition holds that the Preists are the descendants of the Apostles, imbued with the holy spirit, doing the funky middle-man thang, and the way to jesus is through them...But then, you don't like Catholicism do you? Shame, i think Catholicism tends to have advantages over protestant mean spirtedness. I like the idea that we are responsible for each others souls...getting to Heaven is a communal effort.
But we are not responsible for other's souls, Red. You can't bear the responsibility for your own soul, much less anyone else's. Are you telling me there is an effort you can make to aquire salvation? What could this be?
"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father but through Me". Not through works, not through a priest, not through sacraments, not through indulgences, not through a pope, not through penance, not through transubstantiation, not through confession, not through baptism. Only through Christ - our high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
:: No attempt has been made to properly universially impliment Socialism.
Then we have a rather impotent God indeed! 6000 years of messing around with various distractions before the Liberation Theologists figured out what Christ meant to accomplish when He fed the 5000. Of course, He was feeding the poor as an example of proper economic and social governmental function.
Of course, in my suspected paradigm, Christ was forcing the analogy of capitalism and possibly prophesying its demise by creating miraculous wealth only to have it redistributed to the poor.
Stuart Gort
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McSpotlight: Stuart, it's English, as she is spoken by English people.
Charlie = Karl Marx ("Karl" = "Carol" = "Charles" [1])
Highgate = Highgate Cemetery; the place where Karl Marx is buried
I'm not going to explain what a bugger is; look it up, they must have it in the US as well...
[1] - yes, it's a man's name; or was originally.
