Day 115 - 06 Apr 95 - Page 19

     
     1        to know is this:   If you do not treat pigs that have flu,
     2        what happens to them?
     3        A.  Some recover.  They lose obviously in growth, so one
     4        loses in production and some may die.  I cannot remember
     5        quite what the mortality is.  But one obviously has, as I
     6        say, to do a Fire Brigade job in dealing with that, but one
     7        should not invite the attentions of the Fire Brigade by bad
     8        practices and not switching off your electric blankets.
     9
    10   Q.   You would agree then it is proper to treat sick animals
    11        rather than let them die because otherwise you may build up
    12        an army of drug resistant organisms; is that right?
    13        A.  No, first of all, I do not believe in letting animals
    14        die, and trying to keep them well.  The animals that spread
    15        the resistant organisms are very often the ones that live
    16        because they may still spread the organisms after they have
    17        recovered.
    18
    19   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, may I interrupt you and see if you
    20        disagree with this:  Given that there are so many pigs on a
         farm, you do not disagree with the use of antibiotics to
    22        treat those who, for instance, have pig flu, nor with the
    23        use of antibiotics as a prophylactic against spread to so
    24        far undiseased animals who may contact it; what you say,
    25        for better or worse, is that outbreaks and the rapid spread
    26        of diseases which, therefore, need the treatment of
    27        antibiotics tends to happen more often and to a greater
    28        extent on intensive farms, is that it really?
    29        A.  That does cover it.  I have great reservations about
    30        prophylactic use and, in that sense, as I say, those
    31        reservations apply to curing the causes rather than
    32        anticipating the symptoms.  I am really expressing the
    33        recommendations of the Swan Committee which was published,
    34        I think, in 1970.
    35
    36   MR. RAMPTON:  Did you notice from the evidence of
    37        Mr. Bowes -- I think Mr. Morris is going to say something
    38        so I will sit down.  If he is only muttering like me, I
    39        will stand up again.
    40
    MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, they were communicating with each other.
    42
    43   MR. RAMPTON:  I see, they are muttering to each other.  So be
    44        it.  I will carry on then, if I may?
    45
    46   MR. MORRIS:  It is just that I was not sure exactly that
    47        Mr. Bowes had said -----
    48
    49   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I suggest we do not get into it now.
    50 
    51   MR. RAMPTON:  Try page 59, line 24 to 38. 
    52 
    53   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, very well.  I will have to go through
    54        all the evidence again and, no doubt, you will each draw my
    55        attention to that which you consider to be important in it.
    56
    57   MR. RAMPTON:  You noticed, Dr. Long, did you not, that Mr. Bowes
    58        told us that in general, though not always, his pigs went
    59        into the stunning pen in groups of three or, more commonly,
    60        two.  That is a practice of which, I take it, you would