Day 114 - 04 Apr 95 - Page 17

     
     1        A.  Well ----
     2
     3   Q.   Do you share their concern?
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Again, do you want to add anything to what
     6        you have told me yesterday about a different gun shaft
     7        and  -----
     8        A.  I agree with the misgivings.
     9
    10   MR. MORRIS:  There is a whole section on pigs and I think Helen
    11        is going to deal with that from what was not dealt with
    12        yesterday.  If we move on to page 37, captive bolt
    13        stunning?
    14        A.  Yes.
    15
    16   Q.   This, presumably, is what the person writing the fact sheet
    17        was ---
    18
    19   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, we cannot have that.
    20
    MR. MORRIS:  -- referring to.
    22
    23   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, that is a matter of comment.
    24
    25   MR. MORRIS:  Yes, a matter of comment, but at point 146 it talks
    26        about:  "However, in some cases we were not satisfied that
    27        they were being properly used", captive bolt pistols".
    28        What is your experience, can you say in a bit more detail,
    29        about the training and the ability of slaughter people in
    30        using captive bolt pistols?
    31        A.  A great deal is handed down by tradition and also some
    32        of it depends on training by people who have not had
    33        experience really in animal behaviour, such as
    34        Environmental Health Officers and meat inspectors.
    35
    36        A typical thing with the smaller slaughterhouses, I went to
    37        one not long ago where grandfather had set the place up.
    38        When I asked the operatives (one of whom worked on a
    39        building site for the rest of the week), I said:  "Well,
    40        how do you know the animals are instantaneously rendered
         insentient?"  He referred me to what he had been told by
    42        his father and his grandfather, and it did not tie up with
    43        what I know of physiological processes.  It might on a,
    44        well, if I use the word "hit and miss" basis, it might have
    45        worked, but it was not soundly based on the principles of
    46        physiology.
    47
    48   Q.   That is one example?
    49        A.  Yes.
    50 
    51   Q.   In general, your experience of the slaughter industry, what 
    52        is the quality of effective use -- I do not mean just 
    53        whether they make the odd miss or whatever -- I mean in
    54        terms of the ability of the staff to use that equipment,
    55        what is your view?
    56        A.  The main difficulty is it has to be done quickly
    57        because the line is moving generally fast, and I think that
    58        they are sometimes rushed and that results in, well, I know
    59        they are sometimes rushed, and that results in careless
    60        practices.