Day 114 - 04 Apr 95 - Page 14

     
     1   Q.   We will leave the lairages.  This is an interesting point
     2        at page 18, point 62:  "More care needs to be taken to
     3        ensure that animals are securely penned in the lairage and
     4        have no opportunities for escape when being marshalled
     5        through the approach race.  In the course of our visits we
     6        have seen animals which have escaped, apparently as a
     7        result of carelessness, and we have been concerned as well
     8        as surprised at the apparent lack of expertise and
     9        consideration in rounding them up."   What do they mean by
    10        "consideration in rounding them up"?  What is your
    11        experience in this?
    12        A.  If you have had to round up a frightened pig that has a
    13        definite view that it wants to get away, it is jolly
    14        difficult to get it back, particularly if it is in amongst
    15        vehicles and amongst equipment.  We talked about this
    16        yesterday, the problem of animals getting away.
    17
    18   Q.   On point 66, the second sentence, regarding goads and
    19        sticks:  "We have been particularly concerned at their
    20        excessive use in the approach areas to the stunning pens".
         Does that accord with your experience that that is an area
    22        where they are used particularly excessively or what?
    23        A.  Yes, but it is sometimes difficult.  Things vary in a
    24        slaughterhouse.  You sometimes get more excitement than at
    25        other times.  It is difficult to placate the animals and
    26        the sticks are used to drive them.  Unfortunately, if there
    27        is a blockage, what I would like to explain is -----
    28
    29   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just stop there, please, because we really
    30        are going over what Dr. Long told me yesterday.  I am
    31        prepared to be patient (and I hope I have been), but there
    32        is no point in sitting through the same evidence again
    33        because you have come on the report and think that gives
    34        you some extra muscle.
    35
    36        If I might say so, many professional advocates would think
    37        it would be counter-productive because prompted evidence
    38        very often carries less weight than that which is elicited
    39        from the witness with a certain voluntary contribution on
    40        the witness's part, which is what was happening yesterday
         when Dr. Long told me about these things.
    42
    43        If there are actually new things which you did not think
    44        about yesterday, I have said although I would object to
    45        counsel doing it, I do not object to you using it to prompt
    46        you to ask Dr. Long about it, but we are recovering a lot
    47        of the ground Dr. Long covered yesterday.
    48
    49   MR. MORRIS:  Can I just stick to things which I think are new?
    50 
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, please, that would be helpful. 
    52 
    53   MR. MORRIS:  On page 20, point 73, there is a paragraph about
    54        the design of individual stunning boxes.  Can you just say
    55        what your concerns are about the design of stunning pens in
    56        terms of the effect it has on the animal?
    57        A.  The effect on the animal is primarily, I would say, to
    58        cut it fairly short, is that if the animal is not somewhat
    59        restrained it will jib or it will back off, and it makes it
    60        difficult to get the stunning pistol at the right place.