Day 092 - 27 Feb 95 - Page 06

     
     1
     2   Q.   Just to get that clear.
     3
     4   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  So it is about a half a metre longer than the
     5        sows?
     6        A.  Yes.
     7
     8   Q.   But how much wider when the sow is standing up?
     9        A.  How much longer?
    10
    11   Q.   Yes, how much wider?  You said that -----
    12        A.  Oh, that is just for protection for the pigs; it is not
    13        for the sow.  That is separate.  That is used to protect
    14        the piglets.
    15
    16   Q.   I understand that, but you may be at complete
    17        cross-purposes with Ms. Steel.  She is suggesting that the
    18        sow is kept in a confined space.
    19        A.  Yes.
    20
    Q.   Call it a crate, a stall, whatever you choose to call it,
    22        it is a confined space; it cannot just walk out of it?
    23        A.  Yes, it is.
    24
    25   Q.   What you are being asked is how much space the sow has to
    26        spare.  If they are about a metre-and-a-half to two metres
    27        long and the sows are a metre to one-and-half metres long,
    28        I have an extra half metre in length.  That may be right,
    29        that may be wrong.  What I am feeling for is what extra is
    30        there in width?
    31        A.  OK.  That one, I cannot tell exactly with precision or
    32        with the different types of management that they have.  But
    33        it is, I would say they can move around, the sows, they can
    34        move, yes, they can.  They can get up and stand, yes, they
    35        can.  That is -----
    36
    37   MS. STEEL:  Can they turn around?
    38        A.  Yes, they can.
    39
    40   Q.   They can?
         A.  Yes, they can.
    42
    43   Q.   So what are you saying that these crates are ---
    44        A.  They are not exactly ---
    45
    46   Q.   -- at least -----
    47        A.  -- crates.  They are not like you would see on veal
    48        sometimes or they are not veal stalls.
    49
    50   Q.   What do you call them, the stalls? 
    51        A.  Just a little pen, that is what it is. 
    52 
    53   Q.   So how wide are the pens?  Are they over two metres wide?
    54        A.  Well, I cannot make a general decision on that industry
    55        that is as wide as the hog industry.  It depends on the
    56        farmers.  But what I have seen, can the animals move
    57        around, can they get up and they turn around -- yes, there
    58        is plenty of room for that.
    59
    60   Q.   Is the width wider than the length?