Day 040 - 21 Oct 94 - Page 25

     
     1        to drink a Cola product which is extremely acidic, and it
     2        depends obviously on what other things you have digested
     3        with that, it may be -- well, my recollection, and I am not
     4        a doctor, but to the best of my recollection, the pH in a
     5        human stomach ranges typically between two and three, but
     6        that is an average.  The distribution is, I understand,
     7        rather wide and, in some cases, it is significantly lower,
     8        and I am sure it would be significantly lower either for
     9        someone who was prone to high levels of acid release or
    10        who, as I indicated, had consumed something quite acidic,
    11        like a Coke or Pepsi Cola.
    12
    13   Q.   Or a glass of orange juice?
    14        A.  A glass of orange juice is not anything like as acidic
    15        as a Cola.
    16
    17   Q.   Anyway, you say between two and three on average.  We will
    18        have to see if we can find out.  Can you turn over the
    19        page, please, to page 282, left-hand column, 44 of the
    20        text, first complete paragraph:  "No adverse effects", do
         you have that?
    22        A.  Oh, yes.
    23
    24   Q.   "No adverse effects were seen when native Carrageenan was
    25        administered to infant baboons (432 mg/kg body weight) and
    26        to Rhesus monkeys (1300 mg/kg body weight) for 112 days and
    27        12 weeks respectively."
    28        A.  Yes.  I am looking back to see what size the groups of
    29        baboons and monkeys were.
    30
    31   Q.   I have done it this way so as to avoid having to read the
    32        whole report.
    33        A.  But that certainly is what it says.
    34
    35   Q.   Three males and three females Rhesus monkeys, that is page
    36        278; infant baboons, I do not think we get the number.  It
    37        is on page 279.  We do not get the number of animals.
    38        A.  No; a gap in the reporting.  The monkeys, the Rhesus
    39        monkeys, given on page 281, of 40, 19 male, 21 female.
    40
    Q.   I will read on, if I may:  "Rats and hamsters have been fed
    42        five per cent Carrageenan for their lifetimes".  This is
    43        right, is it not?  The ADI, Dr. Millstone, which is
    44        recommended by these bodies is upon the hypothesis that a
    45        human being might ingest that proportion of the substance
    46        per kilogramme of his or her body weight for a lifetime of
    47        70 years?
    48        A.  Yes, that is correct.
    49
    50   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What was it, .75 or .8?  It varied, did it 
    51        not? 
    52 
    53   MR. RAMPTON:  What was that, my Lord?  I am sorry. There is no
    54        ADI-----
    55        A.  There is not an ADI.
    56
    57   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is quite right.
    58
    59   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, in the view of JECFA it is so unhazardous
    60        that they do not specify an ADI, as I understand it.