(Appologies for piggy-backing, rather than posting twice): : How can anyone doubt that God exists? He is so real!
Doubt about things for which there is no evidence (nor can there be) is actually quite easy. Your assertion "He is so real!" is not particularly convincing. If I say "how can you doubt that there is an invisible dragon living in my garage? He is so real!" would you be convinced?
: That is very, very easy, there is a great deal of socialisation at play to begin with, when I was small I believed without doubt and thought people who didnt where ridiculous but then I've been exposed to the media etc. since then, thankfully I think because it's given be a taste for critical rationality.
Yes. Faith is in no way contrary to rational thought, as you've demonstrated, Lark, but it is, and must be, a separate and distinct endeavor. We are socialised to believe in a diety, (or in several, depending on our place of origin,) so faith seems natural and inevitable. It is only as we get older and begin to question "received wisdom" that not accepting the faith of our parents even becomes possible. So far, "Bethany" has not yet reached this point. A faith that is reached and held by a rational adult, despite an absence of evidence, can be a very comforting thing. A faith that is based on a childish fear of eternal punishment is not.
: :Think about it this way, if you beleive in God and acept him as your Savior and live your life devoted to Him...you will, without a doubt, go to live with Him in Heaven.
Think about it, if you believe in my invisible dragon, he'll give you fabulous prizes and rewards, once you're dead and not able to tell anyone whether or not he came through on his promises.
: I predict that before this post is finished the religious terrorism of the zealous evangelist will have sneaked in, that is, we're going to heaven if you dont confrom to us you'll burn in hell.
Move over, Cassandra; step aside, Nostradamus, Lark is a much more accurate prophet! ;-)
: Right if I'm to devote my life to Christ or God or Whatever I want a five point plan for what that entails, what practical actions I must take because I'm already a (Practicing) Catholic and a (Practicing) Socialist so I'd have thought I was reserved a place already.
: Would a just god send the Pigmias to hell?
And remember, Moses, King David, Jonah, Adam, Abel, and Noah must all, according to Bethany, be suffering eternal torment, since they died before professing faith in Jesus. That was one of Dante's major dilemma's for Inferno, BTW (Hi Farinata). ;-)
: :If you don't beleive and spend your life living for something else (as the human nature must live for something), even if you were a good person, you'd go to spend eternity with the devil in Hell. the bible states clearly that hell is like eternal TORTURE! (sounds fun don't it)
Ok, Bethany, where, precisely, does the bible clearly state this? Chapter and verse, please. Where does it say that God punishes good people for all eternity? In fact, where is the devil specifically mentioned? Look it up; READ your bible, for a change, rather than just relying on some preacher's word about what's in it. While you're at it, how did Judas Iscariot die?
: Your argument is fantastic, here's a threat and that's it, how's it meant to convince anyone? A lot of the Christians I know live a life on the model of the Rich Young Man, The Pharisees, Sadducies and Scribes, The racialism of the Jews has translated well for a lot of the Christian Identity Cultists and Nasty Southern American Schools.
Yes, and this does more to drive people away from faith than any other factor. Only a fool who was so full of hate and fear that s/he could barely think straight would fall for this.
: :So, you are way better off having a loving Father in Heaven who is down here right now sitting beside you as you read this, than to miss your chance at Heaven. you doubt Heaven exists? Well you'd be better safe than sorry right?
: Better safe than sorry? Isnt that agnosticism?
No, technically it's Pascal's Wager, although phrased much less eloquently. Basically, Bethany is trying to say "If you believe exactly what I do, and it turns out that there is no god, you don't lose anything (except the tithes) but if I'm right, and you don't believe exactly the same thing I believe, then you'll be tortured for all eternity by my petty playground-bully deity." Pascal, of course, phrased it with a bit less sarcasm, but it means the same thing. The major problem is it's nonsense. If she's right, I've lost nothing because I wouldn't want to spend eternity with a petty little bully like the one she worships, and she's lost a lifetime's attendance in a church, as well as any tithed money, and got stuck having to spend eternity kissing up to the bugger (cause I doubt he'd let you off the hook of obedience, just because you were dead. He'd find a way to keep you from asking questions anyway, like "Why didn't Moses get in?") If she's wrong, she's still lost the time and money, and I've still lost nothing, so I come out ahead either way. Pascal's wager is a sucker's bet.
Anyway, must dash. Peace, comrade!
-Floyd
