: I'd just like to say I'm not disputing this but what I have a problem with is all the shit scrawled on public toilets or the fac that you cant go for a walk in certain parks at night without being propositioned for sex,SDF: Lark, from my experience I'd argue that that's the sign of a society which is SEXUALLY REPRESSED. (Is Catholic Ireland concerned with sin and sexuality? You make the call -- I've never been there.) I've been in the heart of Mormon Utah, of redneck Wyoming (remember where they killed Matthew Shepard?), and of San Francisco's Castro Street (doubtless the largest US gay community outside of West Hollywood and whatever they have in NYC). I have only been propositioned in TWO of those three places. Can you guess which two? That's right, Utah and Wyoming. Mostly I've been propositioned in Utah, not as violent but still pretty repressed. So what I'm saying is that the fact that you get propositioned is not necessarily a reflection of the idea that such behavior is "officially permitted" by your culture, and that it's possible that the opposite is true. Do you think they'd be hitting up in the park if they had somewhere else to go?
: yes not a relationship, not a conventional partner relationship that is common to both inclinations but sex pure and simple, this is where my problem is not in free choice or anywhere like that.
: People are flaunting decency and because of their status as socially unpopular lifestylists they are being supported in thier pursuit of special status
SDF: Lark, go back to read my claim about "gay pride," especially that it wasn't really pride but rather a claim to be "not ashamed". Only heterosexists are claiming a "special status" -- marriage.
: by people who wouldnt otherwise support such things.
SDF: Lark, go read Bruce Bagemihl's BIOLOGICAL EXUBERANCE. Then reflect upon your own status. Homosexual sexual behavior has been observed in dozens of families of animals, throughout the spectrum of chordates. Bagemihl's book is full of pictures of these animals "doing it" out in the open. And, when you read this book, concentrate especially upon Bagemihl's thesis about this behavior, his answer to this question of why do so many animals engage in homosexual behavior when it doesn't lead to babies:
we propose the concept of Biological Exuberance, after the work of noted French author and philosopher Georges Bataille...According to his view, excess and exuberance are primary driving forces of biological systems, as much if not more so than scarcity (competition for resources) or functionality (the "usefulness" of a particular form or behavior). Bataille's fundamental observation is that all organisms are provided with more energy than they need to stay alive -- the source of this energy is, ultimately, the sun. This surplus of energy will first be used for the growth of the organism (or larger biological system), but when the system reaches its limits of growth, the excess energy must be spent, expressed in some other form, "used up," or otherwise destroyed. (Bataille 253)
Now reflect upon your own position. You are a member of the most exuberant and sexiest species of chordate inhabiting the planet. Unlike many species, for instance, your fellow females do not have to be "in heat" to be sexually interested. If the other chordates have no trouble with species-wide expressions of the various and sundry expressions of animal sexuality without regard for the "proper" role or "status" of any particular sex act, then what's your problem as a human? Are you using all of your sexual energy worrying about its proper use? I mean, by all means, use a condom, but beyond that?
