- Anything Else -

the more they talk about it, the more confused they seem to become

In Reply to: a sacred carwash posted by Lark on September 01, 1999 at 14:39:18:

Thanks Nikhil, McS. and Lark. I was really just having a go at the 2-dimensional cartoon version of christianity that is so often promoted by fundies.

Most Post-Vatican II Catholics in my experience are more of the "Left" version Lark describes, re: Purgatory. I admit that more of my understanding of purgatory comes from Dante than from the hundreds of intolerable hours in CCD/religion classes/sunday school, so it's probably whacked, and definitely biased towards pre-Vatican II theology. Still, I was deliberately avoiding this avenue of debate because, in the context of the thread, the fundies had proposed a 2 option afterlife with no "maybe" between them.
After nearly 2000 years of philosophising what the New Testament may mean, and close to 4000 years for the O.T., the christians, as a whole, seem less sure than ever. In fact, as DDN has been pointing out, the more they talk about it, the more confused they seem to become, and the more "splinter" groups come about. In fact, Shaun is now denying that folks like the Jehova's Witnesses and the Mormons are even christians at all, which strikes me as just hilarious, frankly.

: :Also, according to the majority of Catholic doctrine (at least, until Vatican II, as far as I know), the doctrine was that no-one in Purgatory could go to Hell and no-one in Hell could go to Purgatory;

Unless accompanied by Virgil, that is, ha ha.

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: McSpotlight: My previous comments were based on what I knew of "old" Catholic doctrine - i.e. prior to Vatican 2; which was convened in 1962; the policy may have changed since then and I haven't read the proceedings of Vatican 2.

The change from old school to Lark's version of Purgatory is a post Vatican II phenomenon, but it's more a general trend than a result of any specific Papal bull, I believe. I may be wrong on this though. I recall hearing something about John-Paul I wanting to formally "liberalise" some aspects of the doctrine before his death, but that might be just the rumor mill again.
Anyway, thanks for the chuckle. I particularly liked the "sacred carwash" metaphor. I'd personally always pictured it as a larger version of the waiting room at the hospital where they make you fill out all those forms and waivers before treating you, but then won't accept the ones you turn in because they have blood all over them, so you have to start over. ;-)
-Floyd

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McSpotlight: That was more or less my understanding of the issues and doctrinal shift vis-a-vis Purgatory, too...

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