Someone is intent on rubbing me up the wrong way....(McSpotlight: So turn the other cheek, and forgive them...correct me if I'm wrong (not being a Christian), but the Church is merely the temporal representative of something eternal; something that cannot be abused, defiled or insulted; as such, what can one person's words do to it, apart from sullying the person who utters them?)
: : Churches? Get it right there was one Church, it remains the one True Church, as for unbiblical doctrines what unbiblical teaching has the Catholic Church ever espoused?
: 1) The very unbiblical teaching of worshipping Mary and the saints.
Protestant fallacy, we dont worship the saints or mary you idiot, do you worship King Billy or the British Crown?
The saints are rightly considered sources of inspiration and models for a perfectable life, as for mary does the fact that she conceved a child without intercourse with anyone other than God, carried the Son of God (God himself if you believe in the Trinity, which isnt likely Protestants can make it up as they go along) in her womb and was without sin what so ever mean nothing to you?
:Why do some people pray to Mary?
I've explained this.
:Don't you realize that Mary was a regular person just like you and me?
Yeah, I give birth to Gods all the time, hows about you?
:She needed a Savior as much as we do. She is neither holy or sinless.
I find it hard to believe that the Lord would sully himself by being born of a sinner like anyone else, Mary was without sin at least at the moment of conception.
:The Bible clearly states that we all have sinned and fall short of God's glory. It is only by God's grace that we although we all sin, there is a way out-through Jesus our Lord, not Mary. Of course Mary is in heaven, because she had faith in God, but nowhere in the Bible does it say that Christians should worship her or talk to her.
Aye, and does it say you shouldnt?
:If you are going to pray, pray to Jesus.
I'll pray to who I want, alright.
:And while we're on the subject, who is the pope anyway? Why are so many people worshipping him and not God?
Who is the Pope, the vicar of Christ on Earth. In the Bible the Jesus invested the true faith to one man, Peter (meaning rock) he said you are my rock and upon you I build my church, he was therefore the first Pope and the Church being directly descended from him must be the true Church because it was CREATED BY CHRIST, not some bloke.
We dont worship the Pope idiot, do you worship your minister or Church Elders?
: 2)Purgatory. It is nowhere to be found in the Bible. It sounds like something The Church made up.
Really? Christ Said at one point that for those that blasphem against the holy spirit there is no forgiveness in this life or the next, therefore there is forgiveness in the next life but God also talks about Justice so there is no forgiveness without punishment but it is very different from Hell.
There is also reference to revelations seen at Fatima, visions and the acts etc. of the saints which support it all.
: 3)Confession. Why does the Catholic church teach that you must confess your sins to a priest? Who cares if a priest, an earthly person like you and me, forgives you? Wouldn't you rather be forgiven by the Lord? If you sin, by all means confess-to Jesus, not a priest.
The Priests are the direct descendants of the apostles who where commanded by Jesus to Forgive Sins, now I dont know about youse Prodigals but as a Christ-ian I tend to agree with what Christ says.
: 4) Celebate clergy. Why are priests not allowed to marry or have kids?
I disagree with that too the disciples had wives but I guess it's about commiting yourselve fully.
: And what are nuns anyway?
Women can serve God too by taking holy orders but since Jesus choose 12 disciples and they where all men then the precedent was set for male priests, so Women cant be priests.
: I could go on. To find out more, go here
You think?
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: McSpotlight: Guys, this is getting dangerously close to something that really doesn't belong here; there are any number of places on the web where you can debate born-again vs. Catholic; this really isn't one of them, as such debates tend to get very hot very very quickly. Taking it to mail would be a Good Idea.
Sorry McSpotlight but since a blatantly sectarian attack had been made on my faith I felt compelled to reply, I know I made some questionable remarks myself because I was angery but I wouldnt let it pass. Please allow this post so that both sides can be heard.
I appreciate greatly what you are saying and respect to your request I will not post anything further on the subject, hopefully whoever this is will take the hint and get an education in other beliefs before he attacks them.
Incidentally I would defend an attacked Jew, an attacked Muslim, an attacked Hindu or Buddhist since, not only have I studied these faiths, I consider it the duty of all people of Good will to fight against injustice and misrepresentation regardless of the author or victim.
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McSpotlight: *sigh* - trying to moderate this is damn tricky. Where do I let the last word be spoken, without seeming to support one side or the other? - yet how do I stop the argument escalating and becoming more bitter in the name of "free speech" (something I hold dear, as should be obvious). Basically, we don't want this to turn nasty; if y'all can hold this debate without resorting to personal criticism or accusations of idiocy, then I'm prepared to moderate it; as a serious and earnest discussion, not a flamewar.
If it turns personal, I can it; I've seen far too many religious arguments descend into eternal bickering to be anything other than extremely wary of them. That means no room for misinterpretation; while it's tempting to pop in some mildly-satirical witticism, it could be just the wrong sort of inflammatory device for someone who doesn't read the satire correctly. Keep it cool, formal, polite and tolerant and it should be within the DR's ambit.
However, I retain a deep scepticism about it remaining peaceful; surprise me.
