Day 244 - 03 May 96 - Page 12

     
     1        report.
     2
     3   MR. JUSTICE BELL: What temperature?  What are the McDonald's
     4        temperatures?
     5
     6   MR. MORRIS:  If it is cooked at 70 degrees ----
     7
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What are the McDonald's temperatures?
     9
    10   MR. MORRIS:  70 degress for up to 42 seconds not 2 minutes.
    11
    12   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Are you changing your evidence from last time
    13        about cooking times?
    14        A.  This has been put to me.  All I am doing is agreeing
    15        that if you want to give a log 6 reduction, then you need
    16        70 degrees for 2 minutes.
    17
    18        To put it in context, if it helps, log 6 is a very high
    19        figure, that is 6 million.  Obviously if you are looking
    20        for a lower devalue kiln, then your temperature time
         requirements will be able to be reduced.
    22
    23        I am not aware of any findings which would suggest that you
    24        would find the log 6 E.Coli in mince meat.  I do not know
    25        whether I am being helpful or unhelpful, but that is the
    26        observation.
    27
    28   MR. MORRIS:  Would you agree or disagree with the findings of
    29        the Committee on page 85, in our 6.7:
    30
    31        "We endorse the Government's advise to cook minced beef and
    32        minced beef products, including beef burgers, to a minimum
    33        internal temperature of 70 degrees Centigrade for 2 minutes
    34        or equivalent."
    35        A.  The answer is very much the same, yes, if that is the
    36        Committee's report, which it is, and that is based on good
    37        science and that is the conclusion of that Committee, then
    38        I would not disagree with it.
    39
    40   Q.   Would this report be the standard guide for public health
         officials?
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  This is quite hopeless, just putting out of
    44        the blue to a witness with no notice, a witness who has not
    45        made any criticism of McDonald's cooking times or
    46        temperatures provided that they are adhered to, parts of a
    47        report which he has not elaborated on in his statement, and
    48        then suggesting by that route that McDonald's times and
    49        temperatures are unsafe.
    50 
    51   MR. MORRIS:  Their own expert came to the same conclusion but 
    52        they did not call him as a witness, so I do not think it is 
    53        particularly controversial to Colin Clarke.
    54
    55   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You have not called him.
    56
    57   MR. MORRIS: No, he was not called.
    58
    59   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I thought you were deliberating on whether to
    60        call him or not.  I have no evidence from Mr. Clarke.