Day 239 - 23 Apr 96 - Page 25
1 end of the day it may avail you to say cattle ranching
2 generally is responsible for driving small farmers and
3 indigenous peoples from areas which, if they ever were
4 rainforest, have not been rainforest for a very long time
5 indeed, but into rainforest with an adverse effect on the
6 rainforest, insofar as you are pursuing that argument, it
7 does not matter one jot where the rainforest is as long as
8 it is rainforest. So we can forget where that is. We do
9 not need to know whether it is in the very mid north of the
10 country or the northeast of the country. It is rainforest,
11 full stop.
12
13 Insofar as, despite what I said in July of last year, you
14 are trying to get somewhere on the suppliers of cattle for
15 McDonald's farming on land which was recently rainforest,
16 notwithstanding my ruling of July, I think you have really
17 got to point Mr. Monbiot at the particular areas.
18
19 MR. MORRIS: Right.
20
21 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Since, it seems to me, you do not have any
22 witnesses who say McDonald's were farming, or rather
23 McDonald's beef patties come from cattle which were farmed
24 in this particular area, which is not an area that
25 McDonald's confess to, you have no area like that to put.
26 If you think you have, then put it anyway. Apart from that
27 you are, it seems to me at the moment, reduced to the areas
28 where McDonald's witnesses say the cattle come from to be
29 turned into beef patties eventually and you have the
30 opportunity to ask Mr. Monbiot about those areas.
31
32 MR. MORRIS: Right.
33
34 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Whether, for instance, any of these outliers
35 might go any way near them or, if they do not and they are
36 not rainforest now, whether they were not rainforest at
37 some specific time ago. I am sorry to take so long over
38 it, but that is what really helps me. It does not, I am
39 afraid, help me just to say, "What is the vegetation like
40 in this state or that state?"
41
42 MR. MORRIS: Right. Well, if we look at -----
43
44 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I have your knock-on and ripple effect
45 points.
46
47 MR. MORRIS: We know that McDonald's get supplies from the state
48 of Goias.
49
50 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes.
51
52 MR. MORRIS: (To the witness): Have you studied cerrado in
53 Goias?
54 A. Yes, I have been to some various areas of cerrado in
55 Goias, yes.
56
57 Q. It looks to me, based on that other map of Doctor Cotter,
58 that some of the deforested rainforest extends into Goias
59 state that he identifies. Could you help us with the
60 vegetation types or traditional vegetation types in Goias
