Day 239 - 23 Apr 96 - Page 24
1 deforested between 1940 and 1982 and, obviously, there may
2 have been deforestation since 1982 not marked on the map.
3 Because it is easier to compare a map to a map rather than
4 describe where you are pointing at with your fingers, does
5 that or does that not accord with your view on the extent
6 of what might be described as tropical rainforests?
7 A. This map here, the small one?
8
9 Q. Yes.
10 A. Yes.
11
12 Q. I mean, obviously, you have said that there are still
13 stands of rainforest outside what, traditionally, might be
14 called tropical rainforest areas etc. etc, but as a rough
15 guide is that helpful or not helpful?
16 A. I would say broadly, yes, that would more or less
17 correspond with what I would consider to be tropical
18 rainforest, this small map.
19
20 Q. Right.
21 A. But, of course, it is difficult to draw hard and fast
22 lines, as I say, and I think one thing I would like to
23 point out is there is this phenomenon which the Kaoiwa
24 Indians call -- they have a name for it, "Apete" --
25 A-P-E-T-E, which are these outliers of rainforest extending
26 sometimes several hundred miles south of what would be the
27 sort of main block of the rainforest and they are familiar
28 with these because they use them for their long distance
29 hunting, foraging, migrations which can sometimes persist
30 for a whole year.
31
32 Q. If we look at particular states, for example, such as Mato
33 Grosso do Sul?
34 A. Yes.
35
36 Q. Can you just identify in that state the forest types and
37 the vegetation types. Is there tropical forest in that
38 state?
39 A. Well, there is certainly a lot of what is called here
40 dense woodland. There is -----
41
42 Q. Which colour is that?
43 A. That is the dark pink.
44
45 Q. Right.
46 A. And it is on the key. It says "Arborea Densa", which
47 translates roughly as dense woodland. Then there is the
48 open woodland and then this SN, savanna or seasonal
49 forest. I just want to check what ST is -- savanna or step
50 type savanna -- and here we have also these -----
51
52 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Where are we going? Just pause a moment.
53 A. I am sorry.
54
55 MR. MORRIS: I was trying to -- I thought the best approach was
56 to look at the particular states and say -----
57
58 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I do not think it is helpful just to look at
59 particular states and say what vegetation there is in those
60 states. If we start from square one. Insofar as at the
