Day 239 - 23 Apr 96 - Page 22

     
     1        tend to start as you move northwards from the Sao Paulo? Is
     2        it mixed up in the middle of the map and does it become
     3        predominantly moist forest after certain points.  Can you
     4        help us with that?
     5        A.   There is or was moist forest scattered in pockets over
     6        wide tranches of Brazil.  I will point you to, for example,
     7        what they call the Mata Atlantica forest along here, which
     8        was a magnificent forest with huge, huge trees -- where
     9        Brazil came from -- which gave Brazil its name.  It was a
    10        very read and entirely sought after word which is now
    11        virtually extinct and that largely came from Mata Atlantica
    12        and it was a wonderfully high forest with golden white
    13        tamarin and things like that living in it.  You had these
    14        huge stances of Parana pine standing here.  You have
    15        probably heard of that.
    16
    17   Q.   When you say "here" -----
    18        A.  In the state of Parana.
    19
    20   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It is down near Peru.
         A.   That was also -- I mean, you could describe it, I
    22        suppose, as a sort of temperate rainforest, if you like.
    23        It was a huge originally untouched, very impressive looking
    24        bit of forest, with high trees.  That is where the parana
    25        pine came from but is now almost extinct due to a
    26        combination of deforestation and ranching and stuff.
    27
    28        Then scattered in pockets, even in the more sear and arid
    29        parts of the country, even up here in the Nordesh of
    30        Brazil, this bit, this hump which sticks out into the
    31        Atlantic, you get, and you still get in places, pockets of
    32        what I think any school child really would sort of identify
    33        as rainforest, you know, the stuff which has got monkeys in
    34        and parrots and very spectacular stands of big trees and,
    35        indeed, until recently, of course, indigenous people in
    36        many of these places making a living off -----
    37
    38   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Just pause there a moment.  I am going to
    39        take the break now.  Can I just explain to you,
    40        Mr. Monbiot, we have had quite a lot of evidence which I am
         going to have to assess about where the cattle which become
    42        McDonald's beef patties come from in Brazil.  There may be
    43        some dispute about certain areas, or just how far they
    44        extend, but Mr. Morris knows where they are.  We have a map
    45        with a large proportion, anyway, of the areas actually
    46        marked on it.  I do not know whether you have seen it or
    47        not.
    48
    49        What would help me most, Mr. Morris, is not what, outside
    50        this court, would be an extremely interesting geography 
    51        lesson from Mr. Monbiot about Brazil as a whole but 
    52        application to the areas on the Morganti map (as we have 
    53        called it, the yellow flashes) and any other particular
    54        areas which you say come into the frame, whether they are
    55        on the Morganti map or not.  But it is particular areas I
    56        need to know.  I mean, for instance, when we get over in
    57        the state of Goias, you may well want to put areas at the
    58        northern extremity of that state north of Goina, even
    59        though there are not yellow flashes there, because we may
    60        have a loose end in relation to that.  But this is really