Day 239 - 23 Apr 96 - Page 21

     
     1        little.
     2
     3        All I am saying now, and I do not want a further discussion
     4        because I am letting you adduce the evidence, is I do not
     5        want to be distracted by what is "Amazonia" by one person's
     6        terms and what is "Amazonia" by another person's terms.
     7
     8        What I want to know from Mr. Monbiot, who is the witness in
     9        the witness box at the moment and has told us of his
    10        experience of the country, is what the ground looks like
    11        here and what it looks like there apart from his expert
    12        opinion of indirect and knock-on effect.  That is all.
    13
    14   MS STEEL:  I understood what Mr. Rampton was arguing about this
    15        morning was that none of the areas with the ranches were in
    16        the Amazon and therefore ----
    17
    18   MR. RAMPTON:  No.
    19
    20   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I did not understand that to be his argument
         at all.
    22
    23   MR. RAMPTON:  I did not say anything like that.  I am only
    24        interested in rainforest. I do not give a fig for Amazonia.
    25
    26   MS. STEEL:  That is exactly the point, so it is relevant to what
    27        the witness considers "Amazonia" to be.
    28
    29   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I do not think it is.  I am not going to say
    30        it more than once.  At the end of the day, there is only
    31        one person who is going to make a decision in this case
    32        and, for better or worse, that is me, and what I want to
    33        hear from Mr. Monbiot is, if you think it helps you, if I
    34        stood on the ground there, what it would look like to me
    35        and if I went off to another area and stood on the ground
    36        there, what would that look like to me as well, because I
    37        have not been there.
    38        A.   Well, perhaps I could address that question directly.
    39
    40   Q.   Yes.  I am just worried that if we worry about what you
         consider "Amazonia" and someone else were, it would not be
    42        helpful to me on what I need to know.
    43        A.   As far as what it looks like is concerned, my Lord
    44         ----
    45
    46   Q.   Stick to the particular areas.
    47        A.   Sure.
    48
    49   Q.   Mr. Morris was asking you what it was like near Sinop and
    50        other areas and I am more than content that he should 
    51        continue to do that.  It is just the digression of whether 
    52        you would call it "Amazonia" or not. 
    53
    54   MR. MORRIS:  (To the witness):  Looking at the map, you have
    55        said that there are many different diverse vegetation
    56        types?
    57        A.   Yes.
    58
    59   Q.   That would not necessarily come out on the map within very
    60        small areas, but if we say:  Where does the moist forests