Day 172 - 12 Oct 95 - Page 07
1 been and always would be"?
2 A. Yes. I explained to him my own background as an
3 industrial editor working with the unions, and I said
4 I failed to see why they were keeping the unions out of
5 this company. He just said, basically, "We have no need of
6 them", but he did stress -----
7
8 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Pause there. (Pause) He did stress -----
9 A. Yes. I mean, I think he used the phrase, "We are not
10 anti-union", but my experience of companies who do not have
11 the unions all say that; they all say, "We are non-union."
12
13 MR. MORRIS: Can you remember anything else about that
14 conversation on the Company's attitude to unions? Just
15 elaborate if you wish?
16 A. No, I cannot, really, because it did not last very
17 long. I just made the point that I thought his company
18 would be enriched by allowing staff representatives.
19 I said they did not have to be in the TUC as long as they
20 were represented by some staff association. I thought
21 workers ought to have a voice. But he sort of said that
22 was their culture and had always been their culture.
23
24 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Pause there.
25 A. They also mentioned what I thought was low pay in
26 McDonald's. I was amazed at how people could, on the one
27 hand, appear to be so happy and, at the same time, being so
28 lowly paid. But he just said their practice, again
29 worldwide, was to pay the going rate ---
30
31 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Pause there.
32
33 THE WITNESS: -- whatever the going rate was.
34
35 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Do not say anything more for the moment. If
36 you go on when I am half way through noting something, you
37 might just as well not have said what comes next,
38 Mr. Pattinson.
39
40 THE WITNESS: I will go slow, my Lord.
41
42 MR. MORRIS: I think you may have been saying something, but
43 I cannot remember what it was. You were talking about
44 Mr. Preston saying -----
45
46 MR. JUSTICE BELL: He said it was their practice worldwide to
47 pay the going rate, whatever the going rate was.
48
49 THE WITNESS: That is right.
50
51 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That was in response to Mr. Pattinson saying
52 he was amazed that they appeared to be so happy when they
53 were so lowly paid.
54
55 MR. MORRIS: Is there anything else about the conversation,
56 specifically what Paul Preston said regarding unions and
57 low pay, or whatever?
58 A. No. He just said that young people were an
59 inexhaustible supply of labour worldwide, as well.
60 I recall him saying that, because I was asking him
