Day 159 - 20 Jul 95 - Page 05
1 The Lord Justice Neill grounds for reasonable belief and
2 grounds for supposing evidence will be available at trial,
3 we have expert witnesses who have already put statements
4 in, who clearly have on the ground knowledge of the
5 situation in Brazil.
6
7 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That is why I was asking to look at them,
8 because they do not actually give me any help with the
9 geography, do they?
10
11 MR. MORRIS: No, except regarding the Mato Grosso, I did refer
12 to Mr. Monbiot's statement. I was going to refresh your
13 memory on that. On page 2 of his statement, in the middle
14 of that statement: "A further aspect is the clearance of
15 cerrado forest in states such as Mato Grosso for soya
16 beans, much of which goes to feed cattle in Brazil, the
17 United States and Europe. The cerrado is also highly
18 diverse, and its clearance leads to significant losses of
19 biodiversity." The Mato Grosso was mentioned in terms of
20 Barretos in terms of cattle ranching. It is also very
21 close to the northern-most admitted supply plant in Brazil
22 of McDonald's.
23
24 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Is cerrado forest sparse forest?
25
26 MR. MORRIS: Cerrado forest -- my understanding of cerrado
27 forests, it is dense forests, as far as I know, but it also
28 includes -- this morning I spoke to Friends of the Earth
29 Rain Forest Campaigner, Tony Juniper, who said -- the point
30 is I am justifying reasonable belief here and, therefore,
31 what was told to me is material -- but, as far as he is
32 concerned, the whole Amazon region is what
33 environmentalists are concerned over, including cerrado
34 forests, and Mr. Monbiot refers to cerrado and the need to
35 protect cerrado forest.
36
37 What was explained to me was the difference between a
38 cerrado and the other areas of the Amazon is that it is
39 seasonal rather than all year round, but that the damage
40 that cattle ranching does is as of much concern and I think
41 this backs up -----
42
43 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That may be, but I do not at the moment see
44 that as something in the leaflet. Let us suppose for the
45 moment you get over Mr. Rampton's argument about it really
46 being direct destruction which the leaflet complains of.
47 Let us suppose you get over that if only because you,
48 nevertheless, being allowed to plead Costa Rica and
49 Guatemala, so why not (I was putting to him Brazil), where
50 do we get anything but rain forest here, so far as
51 destruction is concerned? I know there is the 800 square
52 miles point.
53
54 MR. MORRIS: That is different. The leaflet refers to tropical
55 forests.
56
57 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That is not a Brazil rain forest point you
58 are now making, is it?
59
60 MR. MORRIS: The leaflet refers in its introduction to the