Day 142 - 26 Jun 95 - Page 18


     
     1        and to take counsel with them, and I will help them pick
     2        out local counsel because, I do not know, when I go to a
     3        place, if that is the issue, I do not know the laws, I do
     4        not know the customs.  I have got to learn as I go, if you
     5        will, and most of the reliance, if you will, needs to be
     6        placed upon local people, but I will help try to facilitate
     7        it and try to help, because I do have a legal background
     8        with the identification of quality of counsel.
     9
    10   Q.   But why do you not save all the money that you spend on
    11        that and just say to them:  "Look, if some of your workers
    12        are interested in trade unions, just let them go ahead and
    13        negotiate with them".
    14        A.  The entire area that you are talking about, the Labour
    15        Relations area, is very intricate, special rules.  This is
    16        not an area for people just to stumble through.  This is an
    17        area where you need competent people to help you understand
    18        what your obligations are, what the respective rights are
    19        of the parties, what the government expects, what the
    20        Labour Board, if there is a Labour Board, expects.
    21
    22        You are talking about a very complicated area, and the
    23        people who are running McDonald's businesses are business
    24        people.  They do not have experience in this particular
    25        area.  The same way that they need to get a good
    26        accountant, they need to get good -----
    27
    28   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause there.  What is, I think, being
    29        suggested to you is that the moment anyone employed at any
    30        store expressed a personal desire to be represented by a
    31        union, or the moment a union expressed an interest in
    32        representing any McDonald's or owner/operator or joint
    33        venture partners, employees, why does not McDonald's say:
    34         "Well, we will avoid any prospect of a dispute by the
    35        union by agreeing union representation here and now"?
    36        A.  My Lord -----
    37
    38   Q.   Why do you not do that, you are asked?
    39        A.  If I understand what I am being asked, there are
    40        various parties involved in any of these proceedings,
    41        whether it be the employees, whether it be the union,
    42        whether it be the owner/operator, and everyone needs to
    43        understand what their rights and what their
    44        responsibilities are.
    45
    46        You could do something and then criticism or legal
    47        ramifications comes from that, or disagreement comes from
    48        that among your people.  So, it is not just a simple matter
    49        of just saying:  "Well, why don't you do this?" or "Why
    50        don't you do that?"  It needs advice and counsel by those 
    51        who really understand what needs to be done. 
    52 
    53   MS. STEEL:   You said that you would advise them to get some
    54        kind of labour attorney that had experience in this area?
    55        A.  Good counsel, yes.
    56
    57   Q.   In Labour Relations?
    58        A.  Good counsel, yes, an expert in the area.
    59
    60   Q.   Why would they not have one already?

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