Day 132 - 07 Jun 95 - Page 08

     
     1
     2   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  864 to 871, the 23 recommendations.
     3        (To the witness):  They seem to me all to be
     4        recommendations about systems, if I could describe it that
     5        way?
     6        A.  That is so.
     7
     8   Q.   There is only one recommendation about a practice on the
     9        ground ---
    10        A.  Yes.
    11
    12   Q.   -- if it can be fairly be described as that, which is the
    13        one which relates to hustle, No. 7?
    14        A.  Yes, indeed.
    15
    16   Q.   There are no other recommendations which, in effect, point
    17        at the way crew actually do their job and the safety risk
    18        there, apart from ---
    19        A.  Indeed, my Lord.
    20
    Q.   -- hustle?  Do you have familiarity with HSE enquiries of
    22        this kind, investigations, or not?
    23        A.  Well, this is an unusual type of investigation in that
    24        they have conducted through the Accident Prevention Unit in
    25        depth examinations of companies like McDonald's.  I am
    26        familiar with the way they went about the exercise.  It is
    27        certainly system-orientated because they are looking at the
    28        Company organisation.  However, obviously as part of that,
    29        they did spend a considerable amount of time in stores
    30        observing what goes on.
    31
    32   Q.   They say that.
    33        A.  Consequently, one would have expected that if they had
    34        seen any actions which they would have construed as unsafe
    35        they would obviously have made comment on them, I would
    36        presume.
    37
    38   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is what I wanted to ask.
    39        A.  In preparing a report of this kind (because I undertake
    40        similar audits myself), one tends to use, perhaps, isolated
         behaviour as an illustration of the need to develop a
    42        system and the fact that they have not quoted these sorts
    43        of figures ------
    44
    45   Q.   They did that in relation to hustle.
    46        A.  Indeed.
    47
    48   Q.   The manager saying that people never ran or slid as it was
    49        going on behind him.
    50        A.  Absolutely.  That is a good illustration of the way one 
    51        uses observations in a general report of this kind.  So 
    52        I presume that they did not see anything that they felt 
    53        worthy of comment on in the way of unsafe acts other than
    54        the hustle comments.
    55
    56   Q.   The final matter I wanted to ask you about really related
    57        to some of your answers yesterday evening.   If you turn to
    58        page 852, because you will remember Mr. Morris was
    59        questioning you about the safety audit ---
    60        A.  Yes.