Day 131 - 06 Jun 95 - Page 44
1 MR. JUSTICE BELL: -- he thinks, in effect, he had become
2 McDonald's outside consultant in relation to health and
3 safety matters, not being food safety? Is that really what
4 you are asking?
5
6 MR. MORRIS: Yes. (To the witness) When was the first time --
7 well, I think we have established that it sort of began
8 somewhere in the late 1990s. But I am trying to find out
9 the first time McDonald's was asking you: "What do you
10 think of our safety systems? What do you think of our
11 safety culture?"
12 A. From the time I came in, effectively, because Jill was
13 developing a department, she was casting around to see if
14 that was the best model, and so on and so forth. Even if
15 I was not actually making, I do not know, a full day's
16 input, she would phone me up and ask my opinion, or would
17 fire a document across to me and ask for comments, that
18 sort of thing. So it just began to develop from there. It
19 would be difficult for me to say exactly what I did and
20 when, and so on.
21
22 Q. So sometime in the first few months that you were engaged
23 by Jill Barnes, you began to be asked things about the
24 entire setup of McDonald's with regard to safety?
25 A. Yes. I mean, in fairness, you would have to do that if
26 you are doing, for instance, a COSHH assessment, because
27 you cannot just look at chemicals in isolation; you have to
28 ask yourself how the chemicals are used, and so on and so
29 forth, so you begin to get to know the operation right from
30 Day One, basically.
31
32 Q. We will come back to that in a minute. Before we look at
33 the specifics with McDonald's, in the catering industry,
34 are you aware of something called Statistical Review of the
35 Hotel and Catering Industry, published by the
36 Catering Intelligence Unit?
37 A. No, I am not.
38
39 Q. In association with the industry's training board, back in
40 1982?
41 A. I have never heard of the Catering Intelligence Unit.
42
43 Q. What figures would you say are employed in the hotel and
44 catering industry, in general, in this country, what kind
45 of numbers?
46 A. I am sorry, the number of people who are employed?
47
48 Q. In the whole catering industry, hotel and catering
49 industry.
50 A. I am honestly not sure. It is -- certainly it is one
51 of the major employers. It is certainly over a million,
52 but I would not be aware of the exact figure. Can you
53 produce it for me?
54
55 Q. Would you say it was somewhere -- a rule of thumb could be
56 something around two million?
57 A. I would say that was probably somewhere around right,
58 but -----
59
60 Q. McDonald's have given figures earlier on in the case, by
