Day 131 - 06 Jun 95 - Page 10

     
     1        we are talking about a factory environment which tends to
     2        be fairly closely controlled.
     3
     4   Q.   Is there any company, in your experience over the last
     5        30 years, or whatever it is, that has a reporting rate as
     6        high as McDonald's, whether it be 80 or 90 per cent?
     7        A.  I would like to think that some other organisations
     8        I represent achieve a similar sort of figure.  But for a
     9        widespread organisation such as McDonald's, that is a
    10        creditable performance.  I know every accident should be
    11        reported when it is over three days.  In practice, it is
    12        not.
    13
    14   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Mr. Rampton, I think I need to know:  the
    15        McDonald's 12 was on matters actually reported.
    16
    17   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes.  It was ----
    18
    19   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Before one took into account that there was
    20        another 10 or 20 per cent which had actually occurred.
    21
    22   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, that is right.  It was 380, which was the
    23        figure for last year, against the total number of employees
    24        which one puts at 32,000; one comes out at something like
    25        11.9.
    26
    27   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  (To the witness)  What I need to know, then,
    28        is whether the 31 per 1,000 takes into account the
    29        under-reporting or not?
    30        A.  No, it does not, my Lord.  That 31 per 1,000 is the
    31        ones that are actually reported.
    32
    33   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Thank you.
    34
    35   MR. RAMPTON:  So we are comparing apples with apples, and not
    36        apples and oranges; is that right?
    37        A.  Yes, basically.
    38
    39   Q.   I would like to move on from that, Mr. Purslow, please, to
    40        this document, Successful Health And Safety Management
         published by the HSE -- or, rather, by HMSO, but produced
    42        by the HSE.  Are you familiar with this document?
    43        A.  I am, yes.
    44
    45   Q.   Which I think was published in 1991?
    46        A.  Yes.
    47
    48   Q.   I do not believe you have a copy there.  What value do you
    49        attach to the advice and guidance given in this document?
    50        A.  I think it is extremely valuable.  It has represented a 
    51        shift in the stance taken by the Health and Safety 
    52        Executive to the encouragement of what they define as a 
    53        safety culture in companies.  They emphasise the need to
    54        integrate safety, and they equate safety with quality
    55        issues in a way that they had not done before.
    56
    57   MR. RAMPTON:   There is one passage which I am afraid I will
    58        have to read to you, because the Defendants have both the
    59        other copies which we had.  It is only a short passage; it
    60        is on page 48.  If the Defendants could be persuaded to