Day 114 - 04 Apr 95 - Page 23

     
     1        animals in experiments for scientific purposes.  In those
     2        restrictions, those regulations, for the animals' welfare
     3        are much stricter than they are in this section.
     4
     5        So, if you think about welfare as an absolute thing, then
     6        the people in slaughterhouses are much less trained, much
     7        less supervised, than they are in laboratories where the
     8        same animals might be submitted for experiments.
     9
    10   Q.   It talks about the inadequacy of training in the
    11        slaughterhouse.  The last sentence on of point 205:   "All
    12        too often current training practice is merely to introduce
    13        the trainee directly on to the slaughter line working
    14        alongside a colleague who has acquired his knowledge on the
    15        same basis, i.e. with no external or specialist training
    16        and perpetuating the faults of others".
    17
    18        The example you gave of something handed down, grandfather
    19        to son, or whatever, does your view coincide with theirs,
    20        that is a problem which is fairly prevalent or not
         prevalent?
    22        A.  I saw a number of cases of this -----
    23
    24   Q.   Not specific examples but, in general, what is your general
    25        view of that kind of training culture?
    26        A.  Well, the training has been increased since this report
    27        because that was something that was acted on, but it still
    28        leaves something to be desired.  As I said, it is not as
    29        high as it would be for, say, animals killing -- sorry,
    30        staff killing animals for other purposes.
    31
    32        For instance, if these processes were used, the RSPCA has a
    33        disagreeable job of destroying a large number of stray
    34        dogs, well, these processes would not be acceptable for
    35        that purpose.
    36
    37   Q.   Then on 207 it says:  "We have been concerned to find that
    38        the practice of payment of slaughter staff on a piece-work
    39        basis is fairly common.  We consider that such a practice
    40        is not in the interests of the welfare of the individual
         animal but appreciate that it will be difficult to
    42        legislate against."   Two questions:  Is the piece-work, as
    43        far as you know, obviously that is specialised information
    44        about the payment system, but the piece work basis for
    45        payment, is that still continuing in the industry?
    46        A.  It does occur in the industry, yes.  It is less common
    47        than it was, but to some extent it has been replaced by
    48        various types of bonus which indirectly affect the
    49        profitability, which indirectly affects the throughput or
    50        is affected by the throughput, and so on, but the actual 
    51        payment by, headage payments, as it was called, has 
    52        dwindled. 
    53
    54   Q.   What is the concern with piece-work or bonus, what you said
    55        was the bonus system, what is the concern as far as the
    56        animal's welfare is concerned?
    57        A.  That is that, for instance, if you take stunning, it
    58        delays things.  If you have a slaughterhouse where the men
    59        have been used to ritual stunning where they do not --
    60        sorry, ritual slaughter, where they do not have to stun,