Day 114 - 04 Apr 95 - Page 15
1 So, the animal -- the box has to be either unduly
2 constrictive and pretty well hold the animal in a vice
3 which is very difficult with half a tonne of struggling
4 bullock or cow -- a cow would weigh heavier -- and it is
5 also difficult to get the animal's head in just the right
6 position because that is what you have to do.
7
8 Q. You said that yesterday but I was particularly referring to
9 what they say in their last couple of sentences about the
10 animal being isolated and: "At no stage can they see or
11 have contact with their fellow creatures. In our view,
12 such handling arrangements prior to stunning often create a
13 high level of stress, even terror, for the animals"?
14 A. I would agree with that. They certainly are frightened
15 to the point of going to terror. It is a completely alien
16 environment.
17
18 Q. If we move on to unconsciousness. I may say, we did not
19 deal with this in much detail yesterday. This is possibly
20 the most relevant -- well, it is all relevant. This is on
21 page 23 at paragraph 88: "We have concluded that
22 unconsciousness and insensibility are being assumed to
23 exist in many slaughtering operations when it is highly
24 probable that the degree is not sufficient to render the
25 animal insensitive to pain."
26
27 What is your view about that, about those involved assuming
28 unconsciousness and insensibility when it is highly
29 probable that is not the case?
30 A. There are some tests that are highly subjective. One
31 has to look for breathing. I mean, it is rather -- if I
32 could draw a parallel -- if someone drops down in the
33 street has, for instance, an epileptic fit; how do you tell
34 that they are still alive, they going to recover on the
35 site, particularly with a lot of other turmoil going
36 round? It is very difficult, I would say almost
37 impossible, to make sure without using laboratory equipment
38 that these conditions have been met or the right conditions
39 have been met.
40
41 Q. That is only very briefly dealt with there. I think it
42 comes up a bit later on. In paragraph 103, page 27, there
43 is a matter I did not ask you about yesterday: "We were
44 particularly concerned to find excessively steamy
45 atmospheres in some very modern slaughter premises. Our
46 concern was not only for the effect this created on the
47 animals awaiting stunning". What effect does a steamy
48 atmosphere create?
49 A. It creates a spread of aerosols; it creates great
50 humidity. Again, it is an atmosphere where the
51 animal -- one has to emphasise all the time, the animals'
52 responses are not exactly the same as ours; they have a
53 different perception in light, a different perception in
54 sound. We know more about that physiology now, but it is,
55 no doubt, this is one of several aversive factors.
56
57 Q. Actually there was something I was going to ask you
58 yesterday but I forgot: Do cattle always express the fear
59 that they are feeling?
60 A. Animal behaviourists would differ -- would argue there
