Day 109 - 28 Mar 95 - Page 17

     
     1
     2   MS. STEEL:  Tab G, page 307, which is back to the codes for the
     3        welfare of domestic fowl.  At the bottom of page 16 it
     4        says:  "Beak-trimming (sometimes known as debeaking) means
     5        the removal from a bird of not more than one-third of the
     6        beak, measured from the tip towards the entrance of the
     7        nostrils", is ----
     8        A.  Sorry, I am in the wrong place.
     9
    10   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Page 307 of the bundle in tab G.
    11        A.  Sorry, I was in the wrong -- yes.
    12
    13   Q.   Then right at the bottom left-hand, paragraph 6.
    14        A.  Yes, thank you.
    15
    16   MS. STEEL:  Is that your understanding of the amount of beak
    17        that is generally removed, up to one third?
    18        A.  Yes, I would think that was a fairly -- I have seen
    19        more and some recommendations, indeed, for more but that is
    20        in turkeys which we are not talking about.  I think one
         third is considered to be the maximum that is desirable to
    22        avoid the risk of damaging the nostrils, or the tongue
    23        indeed.
    24
    25   Q.   Is one third the standard practice, or is it less than
    26        that?
    27        A.  Well, it is a very random effect, in fact, because it
    28        is done at very high speeds -- thousands of birds an hour
    29        probably -- and it very often turns out quite randomly, so
    30        one will have a very little bit taken off and one will be
    31        more than a third.  But the Ministry usually has
    32        recommended up to those.  There is quite an old leaflet I
    33        have at home, probably 15 years old, at least more I think,
    34        and it recommends up to one third, yes.
    35
    36   Q.   When you say randomly, that is within an individual farm,
    37        is it?
    38        A.  Within an individual ----
    39
    40   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think you mean the exercise itself?
         A.  Yes, the operation.
    42
    43   MS. STEEL:  I think I meant the same thing.
    44
    45   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, it comes to the same thing.
    46
    47   MS. STEEL:  Are you aware of the RSPCA having condemned the
    48        broiler system at one stage?
    49        A.  Yes, they have firmly condemned it.
    50 
    51   Q.   I think there is a press release that ---- 
    52 
    53   MR. MORRIS:  It is number 18 in the supplementary document, the
    54        latest.
    55
    56   MS. STEEL:  It will be bundle 5.  It will be right at the back
    57        of that, I think.
    58        A.  Sorry, which ----
    59
    60   MR. MORRIS:  Number 18.