Day 108 - 27 Mar 95 - Page 10
1 that, as they have not withdrawn that, Mr. Rampton actually
2 asks quite a few questions of Dr. Gomez Gonzales about
3 battery chickens, whether they were happy, whether there
4 were any problems with them standing in cages, this that
5 and the other, and I do not see why we should not be able
6 to counter that.
7
8 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Can you identify the matters which Mr. Gomez
9 Gonzales was asked about and gave answers on which you want
10 to put? I will hear anything Mr. Rampton says, but I am
11 not minded to interfere with you asking Mrs. Druce in due
12 course, and it can cover battery hens as well as broilers,
13 on the extent to which she has a view and basis for any
14 such view as to whether chickens in certain conditions
15 suffer distress or pain, because that is clearly being put
16 in the arena.
17
18 MS. STEEL: The section on day 66 starts on page 62.
19 Mr. Rampton is asking Dr. Gomez Gonzalez whether he had
20 studied the animal welfare implications of the bird inside
21 a cage inside a house and he said: "The one way we can get
22 good information is looking at the health of the animal,
23 the weight of the bird, whether it lays eggs. A happy hen
24 will produce more eggs", and things about nutrition.
25 I mean, there are all kinds of things that were brought in;
26 things about the amount of daylight, the amount of light
27 that they need.
28
29 MR. JUSTICE BELL: We are still on batteries, are we there?
30
31 MS. STEEL: Yes.
32
33 MR. RAMPTON: I have to say, my Lord, I think that arose because
34 of the cross-examination of Dr. Gregory, but I might be
35 wrong about that. I need to go back.
36
37 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It may be but if it is in, it is in, is it
38 not?
39
40 MR. RAMPTON: Yes.
41
42 MR. JUSTICE BELL: You see, what troubles me, Mr. Rampton, to
43 some extent is that there are some things which have gone
44 in where one side has put them in -- it does not matter
45 which side it was originally -- and the other side then
46 starts to deal with that and I can fairly and squarely say:
47 "Do not deal with that".
48
49 It cropped up with BSE, for instance, because although it
50 had mentioned, there was no way that BSE was going to come
51 into my considerations in due course once I had formed the
52 view which I had expressed in my ruling on it. But when we
53 are concerned with the welfare of the battery hen and, if I
54 am right, that it is fair enough to ask Mrs. Druce about
55 whether battery hens are happy being battery hens, or
56 distressed being battery hens, is it not fair that she can
57 give whatever evidence she has to offer on the topic just
58 as Dr. Gomez Gonzalez has?
59
60 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, it is right. He offered on opinion on
