Day 106 - 23 Mar 95 - Page 10

     
     1        considerably less than 1 per cent.
     2
     3   Q.   Is there some kind of working figure, working assumption,
     4        that EHOs make as regards salmonella and beef?  What is the
     5        working assumption?
     6        A.  Well, in terms of food hygiene control within catering
     7        and other factory environments where you are preparing food
     8        for immediate human consumption or for sale into the food
     9        chain, the working assumption on which control models are
    10        based is that any raw meat, that includes poultry meat,
    11        will be salmonella contaminated.  Therefore, you act
    12        accordingly.  That is simply on the basis that you cannot
    13        tell which is contaminated and which is not.  You know that
    14        Salmonella contamination will be there and, therefore, you
    15        act on the assumption it is in order to protect the
    16        subsequent food.
    17
    18   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You do that in two ways -- I want to see if
    19        you agree with what I have got from other witnesses --
    20        first of all, since it is a pathogen which falls into the
         category of the initial dose being generally small but
    22        multiplies in food?
    23        A.  That is right.
    24
    25   Q.   It is important to keep the food at a temperature where the
    26        organism is unlikely to multiply or unlikely to multiply
    27        significantly, first of all?
    28        A.  That is the rule of thumb.
    29
    30   Q.   Secondly, it is important to cook it in a way which means
    31        that the organism is taken over -- I forget the phrase
    32        which was used, but the temperature which kills it, there
    33        is a catch phrase, not a catch phrase, but a phrase which
    34        was used, what was it Mr. Bennett used the other day?
    35        A.  Thermal death time possibly.
    36
    37   Q.   Yes, thermal death point?
    38        A.  Yes.
    39
    40   Q.   So those are the two ---
         A.  Yes, temperatures.
    42
    43   Q.   -- ways in which you seek to deal with an organism like
    44        salmonella which is low dose with a risk of multiplication
    45        in the food, temperature control in keeping it at a low
    46        temperature to limit the potential for multiplication, and
    47        then cooking in a way which takes the organism above its
    48        thermal death point?
    49        A.  That is substantially correct.
    50 
    51   Q.   Is that a fair summary? 
    52        A.  It is a fair summary.  It is not a complete 
    53        representation.  In fact, in meat technology there are some
    54        important exceptions from that.  Temperature is not by any
    55        means the only control of a multiplication and you can
    56        bring into play other mechanisms.
    57
    58   MR. MORRIS:  How important is the cross-contamination in the
    59        batching of raw meat products?
    60        A.  That is an enormous question.  It is very important.