Day 106 - 23 Mar 95 - Page 07

     
     1        of the things he is worried about are not characterised by
     2        scientists as food poisoning but, in common parlance, food
     3        poisoning would cover food-borne diseases, the larger
     4        category is what he is asking you.
     5        A.  Yes, that is the case.
     6
     7   MR. MORRIS:  So going back to campylobacter:  In terms of
     8        campylobacter, do you know what the infective dose can be?
     9        A.  Not with any certainty, but it is generally accepted to
    10        be a low dose infection and reports of 100 to 1,000
    11        organisms ingested to give overt signs of disease have been
    12        made, to my recollection, so that one is talking about,
    13        relatively speaking, very small doses.
    14
    15   Q.   Does that apply also for E.coli?
    16        A.  Yes, that seems to be the same.  I am sorry, I cannot
    17        be definite.  The only way you can be definite is actually
    18        to do experiments on human beings which is obviously not
    19        acceptable.
    20
    Q.   Is there anything else that is important to say about the
    22        transmission of campylobacter?
    23        A.  The illness is poorly understood.  It is not entirely
    24        certain that the bulk of cases are, in fact, food-borne.
    25        It is an odd illness, or the epidemiology is odd, because,
    26        unlike Salmonellosis, its outbreaks tend to be relatively
    27        rare.  The majority of cases are single, only sporadic
    28        cases.  It is transmissible -----
    29
    30   Q.   When you say "outbreaks" you mean in terms of ----
    31
    32   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Two or more numbers of people at about the
    33        same time?
    34        A.  Yes, that is right, two or more people from a single
    35        source; whereas you may have explosive outbreaks of
    36        salmonellosis with several hundred people.  That is almost
    37        unheard of in campylobacter.  It is transmissible not only
    38        through food but through handling food.  That has been well
    39        demonstrated, so that process workers, say, handling raw
    40        chicken contaminated with campylobacter can actually
         transmit the disease to themselves through hand to mouth
    42        contact.
    43
    44   MR. MORRIS:  Can they cross-contaminate other products?
    45        A.  With ease, very much so.
    46
    47   Q.   Do you know what percentage -- we have heard about
    48        percentage infection of -- do you know what the percentage
    49        infection rate of -- we will come on to your visits and
    50        your specific references to McKey's and Sun Valley in a 
    51        bit.  You did not visit the pig production for McDonald's. 
    52        Did you see the pork lines at McKey's when you were there? 
    53        A.  No.
    54
    55   Q.   Do you know what the average infection of sausage meat, pig
    56        sausage meat, would be in the UK for salmonella?
    57        A.  I have seen a variety of surveys which give figures,
    58        quite a wide range, anything from about 15 to 25 per cent
    59        with salmonella.  May I explain, my Lord?
    60