Day 098 - 07 Mar 95 - Page 23

     
     1        cuts, if you like, that we sample on a routine day-to-day
     2        basis.
     3
     4   Q.   But, I mean, in terms of when you do microbiological tests?
     5        A.  Yes.
     6
     7   Q.   I am just trying to see where in the line now -----
     8        A.  In the slaughter hall.
     9
    10   Q.   You are talking about HACCP is just about to come in; would
    11        you do it roughly in the area now?
    12        A.  After those, in the carcass chillers, where we are,
    13        sort of, sampling and have been sampling for a while
    14        routinely -- as I say, when we implement the HACCP thing,
    15        then -- I mean, we are sampling in the slaughter hall at
    16        the moment but it is from a development point of view, if
    17        you like.
    18
    19   Q.   So when you say you sample generally in the chillers now or
    20        up to this point ----
         A.  Well, I mean, as far as the slaughter hall is
    22        concerned, and the testing which is, sort of, indicative of
    23        the slaughter hall, if you like, then we would sample in
    24        the carcass chillers.  We did sample in the boning halls on
    25        other plants as well which we sample in.  You know, we
    26        sample all over our operation.
    27
    28   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Can you remember five or six years ago where
    29        the sampling was done then?  You have had a lab on site for
    30        10 years?
    31        A.  It is pretty much the same as it is now.
    32
    33   MR. MORRIS:  So, if sampling is done in the chillers, for
    34        example, then there is less time to stop any batch that
    35        would particularly be found to be contaminated because by
    36        that time it is already halfway through the process or
    37        three-quarters of the way through the process?
    38        A.  Theoretically, yes, which is the whole idea of
    39        implementing the HACCP system.
    40
    MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It sounds as if, essentially, they are tests
    42        to see you have your system right or good enough?
    43        A.  That we are carrying out at the moment, sir?
    44
    45   Q.   The tests you are doing are checks that your system ---
    46        A.  Yes.
    47
    48   Q.   -- is a good one or good enough?
    49        A.  Exactly right, yes.  The idea of a HACCP system  -----
    50 
    51   Q.   You work on the basis that if you have a good system ---- 
    52        A.  It is a question of monitoring it rather than 
    53        controlling it, which is the opposite to HACCP, which is
    54        obviously to control the system rather than monitoring it.
    55
    56   MR. MORRIS:  You said, in general, the meat temperature
    57        gradually drops to the time end, but in the deboning hall
    58        it can go up again because of the work that you do there?
    59        A.  Well, theoretically, yes.  I mean, if you are giving
    60        something a larger surface area, then there is the