Day 098 - 07 Mar 95 - Page 22

     
     1
     2   Q.   When you say "all over", obviously not before they are
     3        slaughtered?
     4        A.  No.
     5
     6   Q.   Is there a general area where it would be a standard
     7        practice for someone to take samples, or is it one person
     8        that runs around all over the plant doing whatever they
     9        feel like?
    10        A.  It is quite literally all over the plant.  We have a
    11        programme of sampling.  It is all over the plant.
    12
    13   Q.   But you do not take samples from chilled meat?
    14        A.  Not meat which has been -- which is ready for dispatch,
    15        if that is what you mean, no.
    16
    17   Q.   So you take samples from all over.  Is there an area where
    18        you mainly take?  It seems common sense to me to take it
    19        somewhere on the line before it has been chilled.  Would
    20        that be a reasonable assumption?
         A.  Do you mean the slaughter line?
    22
    23   Q.   Yes.
    24        A.  Yes, this is really a sort of basis of the HACCP
    25        concept that we are moving to at the moment, is that if you
    26        take -- I think I get the point that you are going to -- if
    27        you take samples prior to or during the process and
    28        highlight control points, then you have better control of
    29        your whole system.
    30
    31   Q.   So where would the samples generally be taken?  Maybe not
    32        everywhere but, in general, whereabouts?  I have got the
    33        Jarrets' map in front of me.
    34
    35   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You just say, if you can, what would be, if
    36        you can remember them, the HACCP points to take samples
    37        because they would be thought to be crucial.  Use the
    38        Jarret one, if it helps.
    39
    40   MR. MORRIS:  Just where you actually do take samples, the
         general area?
    42        A.  Where we are intending to take samples when we begin
    43        our HACCP programme -- it will be at what we call the
    44        prehiding stage, so just before that dehiding you see
    45        there.  There are certain operations go on in order to
    46        loosen the hide prior to going to the dehider, so that is
    47        the sort of main area.  Obviously, at the dehiding, the
    48        evisceration, or just after the evisceration, which is
    49        where it says "gut removal", yes?  And then we would be
    50        taking samples from a monitoring point of view from various 
    51        points of carcasses we were talking about earlier.  So, 
    52        they are the sort of -- really, the prehiding ----- 
    53
    54   Q.   In the main body of the line, basically, of the slaughter
    55        line?
    56        A.  Yes.
    57
    58   Q.   Where do you do it at the moment?  Is there a particular
    59        area where you say:  "This would be routinely sampled"?
    60        A.  Yes, there are a lot of products which we sample or