Day 097 - 06 Mar 95 - Page 30
1
2 MS. STEEL: In the evidence of Mr. Walker on day 77 -----
3
4 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Just refer me to that. It is 25th, something
5 like that. Yes, which page?
6
7 MS. STEEL: Page 43. This was actually before we got on to the
8 cross-examination and went on to the 10,000,000.
9 Mr. Rampton was asking questions about the Total Viable
10 Count. He said: "When it says 'Total Viable Count' is
11 that one micro organism or is it the total bacterial
12 colonization of the piece of meat?" Answer: "That is the
13 total colonies identified and plated on agar on one gramme
14 of meat". Question: "So if there are less than, or it
15 might be no more than, five colonies of not more than
16 500,000, that would pass the test of 'satisfactory'?"
17 Answer: "Yes". Question: "Presumably, it is a" -----
18
19 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Just pause a moment. But when they give a
20 figure of 500,000, when he gave a figure and when others
21 gave a figure, that was 500,000 colonies?
22
23 MS. STEEL: No, five colonies of not more than 500,000.
24
25 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That is your question.
26
27 MS. STEEL: No, Mr. Rampton questions.
28
29 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It is Mr. Rampton's question and he answered
30 "yes".
31
32 MS. STEEL: Yes, but I mean the important point is actually
33 going on from there. "Presumably, it is a test of safety,
34 on what standard is it based? Where does the standard come
35 from?" Answer: "That standard comes directly from
36 McDonald's, Oakbrook, USA". "So far as you are aware, is
37 that a standard which is consistent with the safety of food
38 for human consumption?" "Yes". "Does the safety of human
39 beings then depend not simply on the varieties of bacteria
40 which may be found in food but upon their quantity?"
41 Answer: "Yes, because of the toxins from the bacteria. If
42 you have a very high count, you have a very high toxin
43 level. That is when you get illness".
44
45 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. Then, we see, there are different
46 bacteria, so Mr. Rampton asked: "We see that there is a
47 spread for 'passable' between 500,000", that is 500,000
48 colonies, "and 10 to the power of six which is how many?"
49 Apparently 5,000,000 was -----
50
51 MR. RAMPTON: It is five x 10 to the six, my Lord. That is
52 why. 10 to the six is 1,000,000 . Your Lordship
53 interjected "5,000,000" because the figure which is in the
54 specification is five x 10 to the six.
55
56 MR. JUSTICE BELL: May I just .....
57
58 MS. STEEL: If it makes people happy, I am happy to change the
59 pleading to more than 5,000,000 bacteria per gramme.
60
