Day 097 - 06 Mar 95 - Page 26

     
     1        consider whether one is going to admit it, but I could not
     2        possibly admit it in that form because it is plainly wrong.
     3
     4   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You could admit that pathogenic bacteria are
     5        routinely found in raw meat products used by McDonald's,
     6        because that would not necessarily be a point against you.
     7        Pathogenic bacteria are routinely found all over the place.
     8
     9   MR. RAMPTON:  Oh, yes, but that is to admit nothing.
    10
    11   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Sorry?
    12
    13   MR. RAMPTON:  It is to admit nothing really.
    14
    15   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It need not mean anything against you at all
    16        put as broadly as that.  The risk is another matter.
    17
    18   MR. RAMPTON:  If the words "pathogenic bacteria" are apt to
    19        include E.coli 0157 H7, why, then I would not even be
    20        disposed to admit that, because it is not so on the
         evidence.  They are not routinely found.  They are found on
    22        very few occasions; twice in this country and 10 times in
    23        America on the evidence in the last five years.  But if it
    24        said Salmonella, and I do not know what other ones the
    25        evidence might show, were routinely found -- I doubt any,
    26        but ......
    27
    28   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Can I just look at the rest of it again?  If
    29        the pathogenic bacteria are specified, is there any
    30        objection then?  It depends what they are, of course,
    31        because you might say there is no evidence in relation to
    32        E.coli, but there might be enough to pass the Court of
    33        Appeal's test so far as that is concerned, would there
    34        not?
    35
    36   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, yes.  I am not sure there is any more
    37        witnesses for the Plaintiffs out of whom anything can be
    38        extracted by way of cross-examination.
    39
    40   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What about the second?
    41
    42   MR. RAMPTON:  My problem with the second one is this:  To me, it
    43        is something of a mystery.  I have no idea what it is based
    44        on.  It does not seem to be based on anything in any of the
    45        witness statements.
    46
    47   MR. MORRIS:  What are we talking about, sorry?
    48
    49   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The second sentence in 6.
    50 
    51   MR. RAMPTON:  What really puzzles me are two things, which the 
    52        company is that states that unsatisfactory levels of 
    53        bacteria are, whether that be McDonald's or McKey's, I am
    54        not sure.  But, more important than that are the words in
    55        parentheses, "more than 10 million bacteria per gramme".
    56        As far as I know, the specifications both of McDonald's and
    57        of McKey standard is five x 10 to the sixth which I take to
    58        be 5,000,000 and not 10,000,000.  I may be wrong about
    59        that.
    60