Day 097 - 06 Mar 95 - Page 15
1 real gain by it, we need to know the answers as soon as
2 possible.
3
4 MR. MORRIS: We do not want our witnesses to come first. We do
5 not want to be -- may be "bulldozed" is a bit strong --
6 bulldozed by the Plaintiffs into being forced to call our
7 witnesses first, or any of them. Although our witnesses
8 deal with specific incidents because, obviously, that is
9 from their memory, the ones that are witnesses of fact,
10 employment is a particularly unusual part of the case in
11 that, effectively, a person that works for McDonald's is an
12 expert in some way -- I know it is not an expert in the
13 traditional sense -- they did not just experience one or
14 two incidents; they lived and breathed McDonald's
15 employment conditions while they were there. A lot of such
16 matters are obviously subjective.
17
18 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. You have pleaded, though -- I know in
19 other parts of the case it was said early on that if
20 matters were in the statements of your potential witnesses
21 you will not be put to pleading them. We have on more than
22 one occasion since questioned the wisdom of that because it
23 has been very difficult to limit evidence by reference to
24 the pleadings, if it is accepted that the pleadings may not
25 include the whole of the case. But your pleadings in
26 relation to employment are long and are detailed. I am
27 assuming that they do contain the whole of the facts you
28 would rely upon for the Plea of Justification and Fair
29 Comment.
30
31 MR. MORRIS: I think that would be an unsafe assumption, because
32 a lot of the incidents are pleaded -----
33
34 MR. JUSTICE BELL: If you are saying that they may want to say
35 more than is in this statement or more than is actually
36 pleaded and contained in the relevant tab of the Abstract,
37 then I am going to get a bit alarmed because Mr. Rampton
38 cannot deal with that in advance if he does not know what
39 is going to come from the witnesses in due course.
40
41 If you restrict your cross-examination to what is vital or
42 what is actually set out in tab 7, I think it is, you may
43 then find that you have not put to his witnesses something
44 which your witnesses then relate in evidence. If you
45 actually call your witnesses first (and this is my
46 suggestion, not Mr. Rampton's) you know exactly what you
47 have got and Mr. Rampton can call witnesses to deal with
48 your case as it has been presented. You have not
49 necessarily been tied to the strict wording of your
50 pleadings because if the witness wants to say something
51 which might be relevant and admissible in evidence, he or
52 she has said it.
53
54 I am very concerned about the length of time it would take
55 if, for instance, you are cross-examining on all you expect
56 to come out, Mr. Rampton is calling the witnesses he wants
57 to deal with it, then when your witnesses give evidence,
58 such as they are at the end of the day, they come out with
59 something else which I feel is difficult to exclude because
60 it really might be very much in point and then Mr. Rampton
