Day 097 - 06 Mar 95 - Page 12

     
     1        witness for that period and that other tail end topics are
     2        fitted in around him.
     3
     4        My Lord, the gloomy picture I have is this, that if all the
     5        employment evidence is to be given, that is to say, that
     6        the Defendants do in truth call all their employment
     7        witnesses with the result that I have to call all of mine,
     8        the Plaintiffs will not finish their employment evidence
     9        until the end of July.  The reason for that is this.  They
    10        have some general employment witnesses like Mr. Stein, Jill
    11        Barnes, the expert Mr. Purslow, four or five of those, but
    12        then that is followed by 16 witnesses from the Plaintiffs
    13        on specific allegations arising out of the Defendants'
    14        witness statements or industrial tribunal papers.
    15
    16        Even allowing but two days for each of those, that makes 32
    17        days hearing which takes one from about 20th June through
    18        to 31st July.
    19
    20   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  But is it really anticipated that they will
         take two days each?
    22
    23   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, one only has to look at what I might call
    24        the nits which are picked in a number of the Defendants'
    25        witness statements to understand that if I have to meet
    26        those allegations in advance, then it may well be.  One has
    27        seen -- I use the word advisedly -- to one's chagrin how
    28        long it takes for the Defendants to cross-examine
    29        witnesses.  I do not know, that may be one of the reasons
    30        why Ms. Steel is labouring a bit with the case because she
    31        feels -- I cannot do anything to prevent it -- and Mr.
    32        Morris obviously feels that they have to go through every
    33        single possible thing which, of course, is not so -- there
    34        it is; that is what they think about it -- which is why
    35        I thought it unwise to allow less than two days for each of
    36        our 16 witnesses who deal with specific matters.
    37
    38        Of course, if the other side were represented, I would be
    39        saying and expecting to agree with my opponent, and one
    40        would be doing maybe two, may be one-and-a-half, witnesses
         per day on matters of that kind.
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I have had a brief look again at the
    44        employment witnesses.  It is some time since I have read
    45        them all through.  I think what I will have to do is try to
    46        set time aside to read them all through again.  But where
    47        they are individuals speaking of their own individual
    48        experience and you are responding to that, the
    49        cross-examination is to be directed at really those
    50        specific events.  They are a rather different category of 
    51        witness to the person who is speaking about what generally 
    52        happens, as it were. 
    53
    54   MR. RAMPTON:  In some case that is right.  If there is a
    55        specific event where the manager is alleged to have been
    56        bossy or something, or there has been a puddle of water on
    57        the floor, yes, that is right, but some of them are rather
    58        more general than that, I am afraid.  They will have to be
    59        met by sometimes two or three witnesses from the Plaintiffs
    60        who were dealing with that particular restaurant at the