Day 094 - 01 Mar 95 - Page 05

     
     1   MR. RAMPTON:  No, that may be, but it is for the Defendants to
     2        offer some contradiction.
     3
     4   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I am not sure that is right.  I have given my
     5        reaction at the moment and we will see whether it is
     6        changed.
     7
     8   MR. MORRIS (To the witness):  The whole point about the critical
     9        control point system is that if there is a point in that
    10        system where things are going badly, Dr. Gonzalez, yes,
    11        surely, the whole point about the critical control point
    12        process is that if one part of the process is substantially
    13        at fault or defective, not working properly, whatever, that
    14        puts at risk the entire food production process.  Is that
    15        correct?
    16        A.  You are absolutely right when you talk about critical
    17        control points, when you talk about HACCP analysis and
    18        critical control point, which is this system, that is
    19        absolutely right.  This is not a HACCP.  The United States
    20        Department of Agriculture has no HACCP plans as part of
         their regulations.  They have not been implemented.  We,
    22        McDonald's, have HACCP plans because we are ahead of them
    23        by several years that we are on our own initiative.  The US
    24        Department of Agriculture does not have a single HACCP plan
    25        on our meat products.
    26
    27   Q.   So when it says "CCP subtotal" on page 53 your claim is
    28        that does not mean "critical control point"?
    29        A.  Mr. Morris, those are the facts.
    30
    31   Q.   I am just asking you, you are familiar with these forms.
    32        You said you have worked with them.  Does "CCP subtotal" on
    33        page 53 mean "critical control point"?
    34        A.  No, let me explain.
    35
    36   Q.   Do you know what it means?
    37        A.  I do not know exactly what it means.  It could mean
    38        critical control point, but it has nothing to do with a
    39        critical control point because no equipment is in operation
    40        to begin with.  So, it could not be by definition a
         critical control point.  These are based on
    42        non-conformities, not with defects.  This is not a risk to
    43        the meat that is being produced for future human
    44        consumption.
    45
    46   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Tell me this, I understand that you say this
    47        is statistical.  If I understand you correctly, you look at
    48        the percentage of comments at the end.  Here it is seven
    49        per cent and, presumably, the percentage overall gives us
    50        some guidance.  If, overall, it was 80 per cent, I do not 
    51        know, there might be some reaction to it.  That is one 
    52        thing.  The second thing is you say (and we will have to 
    53        see if there is any evidence to contradict you) that if
    54        there had been anything which was a real risk it would have
    55        been shut down?
    56        A.  That is correct.
    57
    58   Q.   You say you do not know of it ever being shut down and you
    59        ask (or Mr. Rampton, no doubt, will) to infer from that
    60        there was not anything which caused a real risk.  But is