Day 093 - 28 Feb 95 - Page 05

     
     1        grows to about an inch.
     2
     3   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, but when it is clipped, how long is the
     4        beak, what proportion would 1/64th of an inch be?
     5        A.  Just the very tip.
     6
     7   Q.   Can you say -- they are done to chicks?
     8        A.  It would be, let us say, I have this pencil, just the
     9        tip of a pen and the tip will be up to here.
    10
    11   Q.   So it is about a centimetre, is it, or half an inch?
    12        A.  About that.
    13
    14   MS. STEEL:   Yesterday you said probably about half a centimetre
    15        was taken off.  Have you changed your mind again?
    16        A.  Now, if you go back to the transcripts, after that
    17        I said, no, that is too much -- you can go back and read
    18        it.
    19
    20   Q.   Yes, but that was the first answer you gave?
         A.  Yes, it was, but I retracted myself, I went back.
    22
    23   Q.   How on earth would you measure 1/64th of an inch on a
    24        chicken's beak?
    25        A.  Have you ever seen a ruler-- have you ever seen a
    26        calliper?
    27
    28   Q.   So one stands there with callipers whilst they have the
    29        cutting device in the other hand to check it is only 1/64th
    30        of an inch?
    31        A.  You obviously do not know about the chicken business.
    32        When we test it, when it is tested, that is how it is done.
    33          That does not mean that once you do it, and once you know
    34        you are going to be doing it every single chick that is
    35        debeaked.
    36
    37   MR. RAMPTON:  May I remind your Lordship what he did, in fact,
    38        say yesterday?  Page 36, yesterday's transcript, line 28:
    39         "Question:  So much of the beak is taken off in the farms
    40        that supply McDonald's?  Answer:  Probably about half a
         centimetre.  Question:  About half a centimetre?  Answer:
    42        Or probably less, just the tip.  No, I am sorry, when it
    43        grows, if that is what it shows.  When they are chicks, it
    44        is very, very little, just the tip.  But as they grow it
    45        shows more."
    46
    47   MS. STEEL:  The initial answer was that before Mr. Gomez
    48        Gonzalez changed his mind was that it was half a
    49        centimetre.
    50 
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I suggest you put to him what your case is as 
    52        to how much of the beak is, in fact, removed.  Then we can 
    53        see if there is a difference between your case and
    54        Dr. Gomez Gonzalez' evidence.  You see, I do not know,
    55        unless you put it, whether it is your case that as much as
    56        a third of the upper and lower beaks is taken off some of
    57        the chickens which are later slaughtered for McDonald's
    58        produce.
    59
    60   MS. STEEL:  That can be the case, can it not?