Day 063 - 07 Dec 94 - Page 24
1 MS. STEEL: As I understand it, the Plaintiffs' argument about
2 fishing expeditions were ruled out by the Court of Appeal
3 judgment, because we were entitled to ask witnesses
4 questions that we did not necessarily have evidence on
5 ourselves, that evidence could come from a variety of
6 sources which included cross-examination.
7
8 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, with respect, it does not say that. What
9 it does say is that if you have reasonable ground for
10 thinking that something is true, you may plead it.
11
12 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes.
13
14 MR. RAMPTON: Thereafter you may use cross-examination of the
15 other side ------
16
17 MR. JUSTICE BELL: To try to find the evidence or in a search
18 for the evidence.
19
20 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, but at the moment there is nothing pleaded
21 either by way of actual pleading or by way of witness
22 statements. It is, strictly speaking, a fishing
23 expedition.
24
25 MS. STEEL: It was in Ms. Carroll's statement and we are trying
26 to find a replacement for her. Actually, this is not
27 really Mr. Bateman's area because Mr. Bateman is talking
28 about the scientific argument as opposed to the
29 practicalities.
30
31 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Carry on and put your questions but be bound
32 by Mr. Van Erp's answer in so far as he does not know.
33 There is a very great danger -- what concerns me about
34 questions to witnesses who say they do not know and then
35 think hard, if they are witnesses who are trying to be
36 helpful, as you may think that Mr. Van Erp is, they then
37 say that something may be so or they think that it be so;
38 equally, that may be completely wrong but thereafter it is
39 treated as if it is right which is a danger. So, I am
40 going to allow you to put any further questions you want on
41 this, but if Mr. Van Erp says he does not know or he cannot
42 remember, you really, I think, have to leave it there with
43 him.
44
45 MS. STEEL: If McDonald's has asked suppliers to look into
46 alternatives to chlorine bleaching -- that is right, you
47 have just said that, yes?
48 A. We have asked our suppliers to look into that, yes.
49
50 Q. That, presumably, is because some of those suppliers are
51 using chlorine bleaching because otherwise there would be
52 little point in asking them to change?
53 A. Yes, or, as I said earlier, there are three steps of
54 bleaching, that is, you can use elementary chlorine, you
55 can use chlorine, if you so-called, chlorine derivatives,
56 or non-chlorine based alternatives. We are looking into
57 that. However, the tests that are going on with that are
58 done by a colleague of mine and I would not be able to give
59 you an exact update on how far we are.
60
