Day 061 - 05 Dec 94 - Page 04

     
     1   Q.   Was he the only person you spoke to about it apart from
     2        Mr. Rampton?
     3        A.  Yes, he was the only person I was able to speak to.
     4        I did mention I spoke to Mr. Van Erp at Perseco.
     5
     6   Q.   Can I ask for guidance from the Judge?  Is the witness
     7        allowed to talk to people in his company?
     8
     9   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Not normally, but I thought you wanted
    10        enquiries made.
    11
    12   MR. MORRIS:  We wanted documents on all the packaging especially
    13        in the relevant time.  I have not seen one document yet
    14        that has been disclosed that is relevant to 1989/1990.  We
    15        did not ask anything about the 100 per cent, checking that
    16        out or anything.
    17
    18   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, there may have been a misunderstanding
    19        there.
    20
    MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, if that is so, I entirely misunderstood
    22        because I thought your Lordship wanted to know what the
    23        position was, so I have done my best to try to find out or
    24        Mr. Oakley has.
    25
    26   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, I had understood -- perhaps we were all
    27        wrong -- that you wanted -- I know we talked of looking for
    28        documents and looking in the files -- any enquiries made
    29        which could be usefully be made.  Your point about 1989 and
    30        1990, I would be very surprised if any harm has come from
    31        it.  Your point about information in relation to 1989 and
    32        1990 is a point you can take in the comments you make in
    33        due course, as you may do as to various other aspects,
    34        because I am very conscious when we hear the evidence in
    35        this field and in others of what the dates are.  So far as
    36        information coming from someone else, that is hearsay ---
    37
    38   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.
    39
    40   MR. JUSTICE BELL: -- and I may have to put some of it out of my
         mind in due course.
    42
    43   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.  I mean, if we look at the second page on the
    44        documents that have been disclosed.
    45
    46   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, I read them through quickly.
    47
    48   MR. MORRIS:  Which is:  "Recycled material used in 1991.
    49        Carry-out bags are between 60 and 80 per cent", so .....
    50 
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You cross-examine on this if you want to. 
    52        This whole enquiry started with paragraph 23 of 
    53        Mr. Oakley's statement which begins on page 8 and goes on
    54        through to page 10.  I am well aware of the dates which
    55        appear there, 1991 among them.
    56
    57   MR. MORRIS:  Just on these paper carry-out bags -----
    58
    59   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  All you need concentrate in your examination
    60        are matters you would like to elicit in evidence or