Day 056 - 28 Nov 94 - Page 16
1 "sustainability" was difficult to define. One person
2 defined it in one way and others defined it in another.
3
4 Q. It is still open to interpretation, in fact?
5 A. Less so than it was because I think the world is
6 converging very closely on an understanding of how forests
7 can be managed to the benefit of everyone and to the
8 benefit of wildlife and other biodiversity.
9
10 Q. When you say in your first paragraph, 1.1, the last phrase
11 "provided that the forest is managed on a sustainable
12 basis", it is a fact, is it not, that some forests are not
13 managed on a sustainable bases either economically or
14 ecologically?
15 A. Very few forests now are not managed on a sustainable
16 basis economically because it is not in the interest of the
17 countries concerned or the industries concerned to deplete
18 their forests. On the other hand, there are forests which
19 have been taken out of forestry altogether by conversion to
20 agricultural land or by urbanisation. Those are quite
21 clearly not managed economically.
22
23 Q. But there are some forests that are not even managed
24 economically sustainably, I mean, sorry, apart from -----
25
26 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I think it would helpful, rather than just
27 say "some forests" because, I have no doubt, you could pick
28 a forest somewhere in the world which could fit every
29 description or criticism you wanted, and then if you have
30 identified a forest or country or whatever, you can ask the
31 witness about that and I can see whether that forest or
32 country has anything to do whatsoever with this case ---
33
34 MR. MORRIS: I am going to come on to specific countries.
35
36 MR. JUSTICE BELL: -- either directly or indirectly.
37
38 MR. MORRIS: Before we get on to specific countries, you have
39 referred to economic sustainability, is it not a fact that
40 many forests or some forests -- you say which you feel may
41 be more appropriate -- are not managed ecologically
42 sustainably in the relevant countries that you have
43 listed? It is a fact, is it not, that some forests, let us
44 say, are not managed ecologically sustainably in those
45 countries that you have identified, or is everything in the
46 garden rosy, basically?
47 A. No, I do not think in any situation you can ever call
48 upon perfection and prove it. There are forest areas where
49 there has been a decline of some kind or another in
50 ecological terms. The main point, I think, is that the
51 forest industries and the governments of the countries
52 concerned as listed here have very clear and positive
53 policies and are achieving those standards to actually show
54 that ecological sustainability is realistic.
55
56 Q. Is that something that is increasingly on the agenda?
57 A. Yes.
58
59 Q. And in the past, basically, was not on the agenda?
60 A. Always a matter of degree. As I have explained, in
