Day 020 - 28 Jul 94 - Page 07

     
     1        you know?
              A.  To the best of my knowledge, it is five days a week
     2        with two shifts.
 
     3   Q.   So if we are talking about 13 per cent, 13.5 per cent of
              the birds that are getting prestun shocks, that is going
     4        to be quite a considerable number, is it not?
              A.  Yes.
     5
         Q.   It is going to be several thousand a day?
     6        A.  Yes.
 
     7   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  How can I get some idea of what the prestun
              shock involves so far as the broiler is concerned?
     8        A.  The way I identify it is from recoil of the bird.
 
     9   Q.   I see that.
              A.  This is symptomatic of what the bird might be
    10        perceiving.
 
    Q.   Is there any way you can transfer it into human
              experience, even in the very broadest, vaguest terms?
    12        A.  It is certainly much less than if you had an electric
              shock with, you know, a high current flow from a main
    13        socket, much less, because the current flow itself may be
              of the order of tens of milliamps.  In that situation it
    14        could be a lot higher.
 
    15   Q.   If one taps oneself on the back of the hand with a ruler
              with middling force, that may be uncomfortable but not
    16        much.  On the other hand, if one gets one's shock from a
              plug, that might be unpleasant?
    17        A.  Yes.
 
    18   Q.   Prestun shock may be negligible or may be painful?
              A.  Yes, the question of whether it is painful, you
    19        know -- you get a physical recoil from the shock itself
              and some people do actually question whether that is not
    20        an exclusively painful stimulus.  It is painful itself.
 
    Q.   It is unpleasant?
              A.  Yes.  So, I think in general terms -- this is a rather
    22        loose word, the word "pain", people do describe it as
              painful.  Now I am unable to give you a human analogy
    23        which I feel competent or comfortable about.
 
    24   MS. STEEL:   You consider it painful?
              A.  Yes.
    25
         Q.   You said so already? 
    26        A.  I do raise that caveat though that I have just 
              referred, because when I have given myself electric 
    27        shocks, I would not necessarily describe them as painful.
              They are shocking.  In some instances I think they can be
    28        associated with pain.
 
    29   Q.   A lot of people consider touching an electric fence to be
              painful?
    30        A.  Yes, sometimes it just gives you a massive repulse.
              It is something we could discuss at length, but we will