Day 019 - 27 Jul 94 - Page 23

     
     1        for their female parent and this would not occur in a
              commercial situation.
     2
         Q.   That type of behaviour could go on for a few weeks, could
     3        it not?
              A.  I believe so.
     4
         Q.   In the broiler industry the chicks -- in fact I was going
     5        to say that they get taken away from their parents at an
              early age but, in fact, they never see them because they
     6        are hatched out in trays?
              A.  That is correct.  They do not get to see their real
     7        parents.
 
     8   Q.   Can we go back to the stocking density.  Do you feel the
              stocking density is humane?
     9        A.  Are you asking me a moral question or are you only
              asking for a personal opinion?
    10
         Q.   Yes.
         A.  Or a scientific opinion, or are you asking for a
              learned opinion or what?
    12
         Q.   I will ask you for the moral one first.
    13        A.  So it is a personal one you want?
 
    14   Q.   Yes.
              A.  I, as an individual, I very rarely say put things into
    15        black and white categories.  I almost never use the word
              "cruel" or "cruelty", for example.  So the way I would
    16        express it is that it would be desirable to see birds
              stocked less densely.  I would definitely prefer to see
    17        birds stocked less densely than even at 34.  That is a
              personal opinion.
    18
         Q.   What sort of density do you think would be humane?
    19        A.  I have suggested actually, again from a personal
              opinion point of view, not based on science, 22 kilograms
    20        metre square would be a useful goal, but I emphasise this
              is a personal opinion, not based on science.
    21
         Q.   When you say "useful goal", is that to improve things or
    22        is that what you actually think it should be, how it ends
              up?  Would you be happy -- would that be the end of it if
    23        we got to 22?
              A.  I think we have to learn as we go along.
    24
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  But as you feel at the moment, keeping in
    25        mind to some extent anyway that you have only got broilers
              because they are being bred to be eaten, is what you are 
    26        saying 22 is a figure you would be content with?  Is that 
              what it boils down to? 
    27        A.  Yes.  I think we should aspire to that in a commercial
              context.  More importantly, though, this is where I feel
    28        more strongly personally, is to try and achieve the 34.
 
    29   MS. STEEL:   Right.
              A.  Because I have seen units which have been over 40, and
    30        that is very, very tight.