Day 008 - 07 Jul 94 - Page 08

     
     1        A.  We used a combination of paper and paper board.  That
              is an important distinction to make.
     2
         Q.   Explain that now and then we need not come back to it.
     3        A.  What is important, whenever you evaluate different
              packaging options, there are no generics to talk about.
     4        You always have to take a look at exactly what you are
              comparing to, exactly the alternative.  We define paper as
     5        flexible packaging, flexible packaging as this would be.
              (Indicating)  This would be paper.  Paper board would be
     6        stiff, rigid packaging.  In general, it is heavier,
              denser.  A big difference environmentally.
     7
         Q.   Is that the sort of thing?  (Indicating)
     8        A.  Yes.  For example, we were using previously to 1975
              for a Big Mac container, for a Big Mac sandwich, we were
     9        using a paper board clam shell and a collar paper board,
              paper board collar, so we were not using paper board
    10        wraps.
 
    Q.   Ultimately, however, both forms of paper come from trees?
              A.  Yes, and we use both.
    12
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Can I just ask, in case we have passed on,
    13        you have said that there is a big difference
              environmentally.  Can you say in two lines why that is,
    14        what is the essence of the difference?
              A.  The essence is, in general, paper board for what we
    15        use, it uses three times more material than in equivalent
              flexible package.  So in some -- much of the environmental
    16        impact of a product really depends on how much you use in
              terms of weight.  It is not that simple, but if I had to
    17        simplify it, that is what I would say.
 
    18   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That can be followed up, if necessary.
              I just wanted to understand.
    19
         MR. RAMPTON:  I am grateful to your Lordship.  We have talked
    20        from time to time, or Mr. Kouchoukos did, about corrugated
              package.   If it is made of trees, what exactly does that
         mean?
              A.  Corrugated is a type of paper board, rigid packaging.
    22        Corrugated refers to the flutes, the air pockets, that are
              in the package.
    23
         Q.   That is classified as paper board rather than paper?
    24        A.  That is how I would classify it.
 
    25   Q.   In general terms, in relation to the question of recycling
              or -- sorry, I do not mean that, I mean in relation to the 
    26        use of recycled fibre within the product, is a distinction 
              to be made between paper and paper board?  Is one more 
    27        susceptible of using recycled fibre than the other or not?
              A.  As a general rule, I would say that there is not much
    28        difference.  What I would say, though, with paper board,
              since you are dealing with a thicker, more dense material,
    29        you perhaps would have more opportunity to put recycled
              material in the middle; especially related to our
    30        business, where food is serious business, half of our
              packaging is directly served in contact with the package.