: ON CENTRAL AMERICA: : Don: In fact, I've used some very specific arguments: that Granada was used by the communists to train terrorists who then spread violence throughout Central America; that the mass graves of some of the victims of the Sandistas were found in 1990; that the Marxist terrorists in El Salvador threatened people to keep them from voting in the election; and that the Marxist terrorists lied about the source of at least some of their weapons (proven by the serial numbers). I remember all these things from when they happened.
: Qx: Now that you remember it should be of note that those assertions have been either refuted or challenged right here on this bulletin board. You haven't provided evidence and even if you did a URL hyperlink to this forum I doubt it will stand up to serious enquiry.
Don: I don't have evidence on hand. I read about this stuff back in the '80s and early '90s. When I have time I will drop by a library and see if I can find this stuff. Perhaps next weekend. If you have some refutations of these alligations handy, put them up. I'd like to see them.
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: ON BIG OL' JET AIRLINERS
: : : DS: I'm fully aware that reason can't solve all of our problems. It does work well for specific problems, say getting men to the moon,
: : : Qx: Yes, that dumb prestige project.
: : Don: Or designing an airliner. Perhaps you should shop around for an airliner that was designed *without* reason.
: Qx: Designing an airliner eh? How about those Airbus jets that operate on swivel sticks instead of having a steering wheel? Faith in computerization can be pretty onerous. So can faith in free trade but it can many optimistic about their shopping prospects.
Don: I assume you are talking about fly-by-wire. Yet you avoid the issue--would you fly in a plane that wasn't designed with reason?
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: ON FARMING
: : : DS: or increasing the productivity of a farm,
: : : Qx: Monsanto and other multinationals generally like that idea also.
: : Don: So do all the people modern US farms feed worldwide.
: Qx: And at what cost?
Don: At a low cost compared to the benifits. At such a low cost, our fascist government still feels the need to pay farmers not to grow crops.
:Also, by using the word "modern" do you mean corporate?
Don: Not, I mean using scientific methods. Which you should have been able to figure out from the context of our little debate. Oh, yes, you eschew reason.
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: ON MEDICAL CARE
: : : DS: or improving the quality of medical care.
: : : Qx: How about those HMOs eh?
: : Don: HMOs resulted from government programs to pay for medical care. It is indeed a failure, the type of failure typical when governments try to plan and regulate industry. It is fact a good example the the consequences of applying centralized planning.
: Qx: Yes indeed. It's applied centralized planning at the behest of the insurance industry which itself is in the business of selling fear and exists solely to make profits.
Don: It's overpriced because of government controls put in place because of medicare.
: : Don: Modern medicine nevertheless is very good--because reason was used to improve medical care.
: Qx: Modern medicine is very good if you don't mind paying extremely high medical bills. That's the American way but the rest of the world knows better. So much for compassion.
Don: We pay overpriced medical bills because of medicare's effect on healthcare economics. The price of socialized medice is even greater, in the form of high taxes, stiffled economics, and poor quality health care.
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: ON MARXISM
: : Don: Sorry to confuse you--I meant Marxism. I should have been more careful, since it's clear you have trouble with ideas even when they are spelled out for you.
: Qx: Actually not but it sure is fun to get you going. Especially when you don't answer the question. Please provide evidence for your assertion. I recommend starting another thread up top so everybody can have a crack at it.
Don: My assertion re Central America is based upon newspaper and other media sources I read at the time of occurance. I don't know of any sources of this information on the internet. Most newspapers don't have archives posted that go back that long. I will try to find some of this next time I have some time to go to a university library on the weekend.
