It would appear Gee that you dont just have to convince others that Socialism is terrible and Capitalism good but yourself aswell now.:I've also learned that for such a society to come about and remain stable it requires, most definitely, the vast (and I mean vast) majority of people to be absolutely in favor of living in stateless socialism and dedicated to making it possible every day- its very fragile, populist powermongers (whether religious, warlike or whatever) and freeloaders could destroy it quite quickly. It also requires, I would add, a broad tolerance among this 'many' to inequalities borne of peoples tendency to prefer one person over another. Equality would not be absolute either materially or personally, but if everyone was so inclined I personally could see no problem in living there. The variety of goods, hobbies, activities and opportunities in life would be most reasonable! However, what is real is that very few people are so inclined. Hence the problem with it all.
Hence but do you wish to triumph the cynical or dare to imagine?
: However, apart from RD's 'once its all happened' image of an agreeable society committed to general benevolence and pleasantness, all I see in other suggestions is endless opportunity for another batch of Lenin/Stalin's - another set of oppressive regimes whether they be national, international or town council sized and a society plan which includes the opportunity for the many to oppress the few on a whim, or more likely - to do so via the equivalent of brownshirts. Where the able are enslaved to provide for things they don't value, where life is determined by some 'administrative' body. These alternatives leave me cold.
Alternatives? They sound very much like the current sham Gee, What about the Hitlers in the boardrooms? And any "anarcho" Capitalist alternative is going to suffer from this equally too, dont you realise this?
These are the problems of liberty but you cant have freedom without it.
:Any society where your every action has to be checked with the whim and the opinion of others, however foolish, sounds awful.
Which is what happens at present by the state and market.
:Any society where the greater your ability the greater your obliged debt to everyone else, regardless of your preference, sounds awful.
I dont think it's that awful but you probubly see it in the sense of some kind of militery style disciplined reward and punish Stalinism, where as I do not.
:Any society which has as its premise the denial of a person as one who discriminates between alternative choices, including how they value people, has quicksand for its foundation and tyranny at the helm.
Fair enough.
: History is not on the 'classless' society's side. Apart from a few exceptions every civilisation has been characterised by hierarchy whether is be royalty, race, caste or tribal position there have always seemed to be leaders and those they are most dependant upon
So your no longer in favour of liberty then? This anti-statism is hollow is it?
: - the great many who prefer to be lead than to lead their own destinies.
Yeah but would their bosses approve?
: Its these threats and consequences that need to be so heavily scrutinized whenever someone offers 'the socialist alternative'
Of course freedom without socialism is compulsion and privilege, Socialism without freedom is Slavery and Brutality. Vigilance is required there are a lot of immature and "statist" proponents of socialism that require correcting.
:or engages in criticism of private property and indivualism.
I'm pretty sure now that I havent engaged in the criticism of property and individualism you discribe, it's very, very general to assume these coneptts serve your purposes and it stacks the deck against me, for instance, to imply they have no place in my ideas of right.
: And doing so is fun, aswell.
