: : Well, that's the message that the anti-gun crowd wants everyone to believe anyway.: In my experience what you discribe as the anti-gun crowd would be better described as the anti-murder crowd, I mean they are willing to support control of any weapon and regulation of any weapon that can be used for no other purpose than murderous behaviour.
I agree. Over here, the gun regulation activists are looking for relatively lenient restrictions on sale and trade (e.g. no record of violent crime or history of insanity, brief waiting period, safety training and safety features to prevent access by children, stuff like that) hardly waranting the paranoid hype of the pro-assault weapon lobby.
: :It's certainly true that the ultra right-wingers are going for their guns but there is a fairly vast percentage of people over here who, although they no own guns, are quite supportive of the right to do so.
: I'd have to think before endorsing such an arrangement, it is a bit like saying I would prefer that you dont kill me but I respect your right to do so.
Stu is setting up another straw-man here. The regulation supporters are not trying to eliminate access. The right of most people to own a gun is not at all in danger, only the right of psychotic, repeat violent offenders to own anti-personnel weapons and make these readily available to children.
: :Something to do with history, I suppose.
: It's unfortunate, I dont think the founding fathers meant the constitution to be written in stone, such a conservative position is very similar to the positions held at the time of the writting of the constitution by the pro-union with Britain people who fled to Canada.
and in fact, the US constitution doesn't even guarantee an individual citizen's right to own firearms. The 4th ammendment guarantees the right of the states to keep and arm a standing militia in peacetime, and the National Guard in each state fulfils this.
: :Personally, I own four guns but they have no particular value to me other than the enjoyment of the occasional target shoot.
: Well I actually have no problem with that personally but I'd prefer stricter control of access to firearms and ownership, I'm not anti-ownership of firearms just anti-the free market exchange of firearms.
You'd fit right in with what Stu and Charlie Heston call the anti-gun crowd.
: :I rarely hunt but enjoy it when I do.
: I hope you eat what you kill and only hunt in areas where the natural livestock can be replenished.
I hope so to. Most hunters don't, but those that do have my respect, even though I'm a veggie.
: :Although a viceral experience, there is much a man can understand about himself and his place in this world through hunting.
: : It keeps a man rooted.
: I'm not sure what you mean by this, is it just some kind of an egotistical trip on the ability to kill things that cant do much in their defense.
Yeah, it's kind of an Ernest Hemmingway mach type of thing in most cases.
: : : However I think this is unfortunate, survivalism contains a concern for self-sufficiency and ecological understanding that the left could learn from, I mean if you can survive you can become independent from the powers that be, well maybe temporarily anyway.
I agree completely. Living "off the grid" is a very radical idea. Lots of socially minded people are shying away from it because of the militias, and others are shy of it because of the hippie communes of the 1960s/1970s which, for the most part, ended as utter failures. "Survivalism" has bad connotations because of all the psyco nazis, most of whom are not interested in anyone else's survival, which is why they oppose gun regulations.
: : That's quite a conservative concept there, Lark.
: Funny most conservatives I know are content to support an order that maintains dependency on corporates, employers, the welfare state, the family, the community rather than one in which people are responsible and able to live self-sufficiently.
Yes, there is nothing at all "conservative" about wanting to opt out of corporate-controlled plutocracy. It's an extremely radical desire.
: :Better watch yourself or you'll get booted out of the opium den.
: I doubt it.
: :You've hit the mother lode of conservative principle when you suggest individualism, independence, and self-sufficiency might be positive values.
Hah ha ha ha ha! Yeah, right, Stu.
: They are positive values and they are only possible in an order where capitalism is either non-existant or residually lingering.
"We shall beat the ...empire by ignoring it" -Eamon deValera. I suspect that we can have individualism, personal responsibility, personal independence, and self-sufficiency while capitalism still exists, but only by turning our backs on it and refusing to play along.
: Bitching about tax and single parents is hardly rugged frontier individualism if you ask me.
and don't forget immigrant-bashing and increased defense spending at the ecost of reducing social programs that would actually help people participate in society. The capitalist culture requires the existence of an underclass, whether that's economically or socially defined (and the conservative elements of capitalism in particular, since it gives them something to whine about).
: : What books are reading now, dude?
Axelrod, R. The Evolution of Cooperation, which I whole-heartedly recommend to anyone interested in social or political reform.
Mayr, E. Systematics and the Origin of Species
Dunnell, R. Systematics in Prehistory (for the nth time!)
Vaneechoutte, M. Birdsong as a Possible Cultural Mechanism for Speciation in Journal of Memetics
and anything by John Wilkins that I can get my grubby little paws on. Also just finished the latest William Gibson, "all tomorrow's parties," which I loved, but then I grew up near San Francisco, so I'm biased towards Gibson's S.F. stories.
: I same as always, I have been taking trips to the anarchist FAQ more than previously but I dont detect any change in my anti-corporate, anti-capitalist, libertarian theology, state and anarcho-socialist perspective ideas, do you?
Nope, you seem to be one of the most stable people in this room, and good for you!
-Floyd
