: :
: Floyd:: Now, as I've said over and over, this is not a disproof of God or of Jesus, or an attempt to do anything like that. I'm simply pointing out that logical proof of the supernatural world is impossible...
Logical proof of anything that doesn't involve logic is impossible.
: Ok then, what about a logical proof of the natural world? After all scientists use induction as a part of their scientific method and the conclusions that are given by induction are not logically guarenteed by their premisses.
Quite simply impossible; and necessarily so. You can never be certain that what you are observing is the 'real' world.
This is actually a Good Thing; every scientist has the constant duty to remember that what they work on can never be proven to be 'the real world' or 'the One True Way'. As such, science and dogma should be mutually exclusive.
(This is not always the case; nonetheless, no scientist should ever have grounds to persecute another on difference of opinion.)
Science can not address anything that isn't wholly based on the physical world (or theory based upon known principles). Science deals with the physical world; and solely with the physical world. Science cannot provide you with absolutes; that is not its function and not something it should be used for.
(The same goes for logic.)
As such, science and logic can never prove or disprove God; no physical phenomena or sense can.
Science is there to build on scientific first principles; the scientific first principles are assumptions; not necessarily untrue, but unprovable.
Science is not there to examine unprovables; it is there to work out underlying principles on what can be observed; and make predictions on what can be deduced of those principles. Science is thus a matter of logic; and any scientific theory which can be falsified is a failed theory.
It's not so much what is as what works; a scientific theory may or may not be the Ultimate Truth; we can never know; but it gives an explanation of why electricity flows through an electrical circuit; and that is something of concrete tangible value.
Try proving the Moon exists. You can't. I can't.
But I can use science to get you there within 8 seconds of the predicted time (according to Newton's laws and the Apollo 8 mission...)
That's the difference between science and faith; science makes no attempt to resort to the eternal unprovables; it goes solely and exclusively on what can be observed or deduced on observation.
Gideon
